Microsoft to make some tester-requested Windows 8 UI concessions

By | October 11, 2011, 3:28pm PDT

Summary: Microsoft is making some Windows 8 UI concessions but isn’t going so far as to allow users to circumvent the tiled Metro screen altogether.

In the third post on its Windows 8 Start Menu plans, Microsoft officials noted the company will be making some minor modifications to the tiled UI. The question is whether the customizations will be enough to appease users and administrators leery of the new default interface.

An October 11 post on the Building Windows 8 blog conceded that some of the criticisms of the Metro-style Windows 8 interface have given the Windows 8 team food for thought. Post author Marina Dukhon, a senior program manager lead on the Core Experience team, noted that business/enterprise Windows users typically use Start menus customized for them by their administrators.

Dukhon added:

“For Windows 8, we support deployment scenarios that include Start screens with a layout of tiles that matches their business group’s needs, allowing for an even greater number of pinned apps to be pre-defined for their users. We also support the managed lockdown of customization of the Start screen so that it is consistent across the corporation. These features have been built especially for our enterprise customers, taking into account the existing functionality that we have provided in the past and the needs that we perceive they will have in the future. And as many know, tech-savvy individuals can use these customizations as well.”

Dukhon also noted that Microsoft is adding a more Folder-like conventions for organizing apps to make it quicker and easier for users to search their Windows 8 PCs. She included in her post the “latest design of the Apps screen, which would add back the structure that you’re used to with folders in All Programs today.” Here’s a screen shot of what those changes look like:

(click on screen shot to enlarge)

There’s still no direct answer in today’s blog post as to whether Microsoft will allow admins to use Group Policy settings to circumvent the Windows 8 tiled interface altogether and default to the Desktop app with the more familiar Windows 7-like interface. This was a request of a number of the posters who’ve commented on Microsoft’s previous Windows 8 Start Screen posts.

Reading between the lines, I’d say this option is unlikely. Microsoft’s stance seems to be that the current Windows 8 Developer Preview experience — with its acknowledged current lack of real and compelling Metro-style apps — shouldn’t be used as the yardstick for those calling for a way to circumvent the tiled UI.

I’m thinking Microsoft’s final answer will be that the Windows 8 Metro UI will be the only default for all Windows 8 users, based on this part of Dukhon’s post:

“(I)f your main goal is still to use desktop apps, you can easily do this by clicking the Desktop tile and using the taskbar, or you can customize the Start screen to put your favorite desktop apps at the beginning of the Start screen and launch them directly. It is important to keep this in mind—today you might be going to the desktop so you can immediately get to the task bar. You can always put the taskbar apps on the Start screen and launch (or switch) from there, or just put the first one you always use right there in a Fitts-friendly location.”

The rest of Dukhon’s post is chock-full of stats and telemetry details, if that’s your kind of thing.

Speaking of Building Windows 8 blog posts, Ars Technica’s Peter Bright posted an explainer on Microsoft’s Windows 8 memory-management changes that’s worth a read … or three.

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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I think the only thing Microsoft needs to change is to allow users to pin apps to the start menu, so when you hover over it with a mouse you can gain access to the quick list. Other than that I see no advantage that the current start menu has over the new start screen.
@rwalrond
I agree, the start screen has the same guiding philosophy as the start menu and on certain grounds, more powerful and intuitive. I believe the major criticism comes from some peoples' aversion to change (mostly headstrong powerusers) and to an extent I understand their situation but what they're insisting on would only cripple Microsoft in the long term as the personal computing world evolves to new user experience paradigms.
@MADol I agree, people don't like to leave their comfort zones and the way they work. While change often slows things down until you get thru the learning curve, the end result is more often more production once the learning curve is achieved.

The company I work for had their own programers that wrote the software for us. The software program at that time was new and I got to work with the programmer to tweak it to our plants needs. Their was a change i requested after about six months of using it which was implemented. The first week I hated it. (it changed all my input methods which I was used to) Which made me less productive. The second week my productivity came back.
By the third week I was more productive than ever. Not to mention the people who had to deal with my output became more productive.

So while I didn't care for win 8 at first I decided to give it a chance. I use it at home almost exclusively, and what I have found is that the start screen combined with the old taskbar works well and gives you more options to organize your programs and ease of access. And if microsoft can get phones, tablets and desktops to play nice with each other that is another bonus.

So I ask that those who can, at home simply put give a serious try for a month. While I agree the start screen is fugly on a desktop, and their are some quirks to the start screen and desktop remember this hasn't hit beta yet and is a work in progress.

Just as i kept running xp until win 7 came out, I will most likely keep win 7 on my desktop, but I am interested in a win 8 tablet and phone.
@rwalrond

I disagree. If you're in the desktop you can pin the apps to the taskbar. If you're using metro apps you won't gain anything from having shortcuts because all your tiles will display when you click Start anyway. And you'd be mixing shortcuts with 'charms', which could be confusing and messy.
That new interface will keep me for using it And the company I work for.
Reading between the lines?
Wrong lines. Here's a proof you can already do it. http://weblogs.asp.net/sfeldman/archive/2011/10/04/windows-8-in-desktop-mode.aspx
@s.feldman Tried it, and to tell the truth, I preferred it with the new Metro UI. It removes everything including the ribbon UI, and you're left with Windows 7 with a new green login screen.
@DreyerSmit
I agree, it is not pretty, but it definitely allows Desktop mode only, proving that the article is not accurate and desktop only mode with "classical" menu is possible (quote "Reading between the lines, I???d say this option is unlikely.").
I dont think these changes really address the key issues, and I dont think in general people have necessarily recognised the key issues.
Users want the start menu because they do not see themselves using non desktop applicatons. They think they will be in the desktop all of the time as they are now. If Office (Word, Outlook, Powerpoint, Excel ) are not updated to metro style apps they they are probably right. If there is no story for muti-tasking apps in metro for PC usage (Large monitor, dual monitor) then I think the critics are right the Desktop will stay as the default experience, and switching to the Metro start screen will always seem weird, and out of place.
For my money the fix is to demo multi tasking on Win 8 Metro for non tablet use.
@nanderto
I use the start screen maybe once a day. Other than that I use Windows 8 just like I used Windows 7.

People who don't like the new start screen can easily avoid it by pinning their apps to the taskbar or creating desktop shortcuts. It's not difficult.
all this stupid UI idiocy is no big deal. Windows 8 is the same stupidity is OS X Lion. A desktop is NOT a touch device. Quit trying to merge the two. Yes, I'm looking at you, too, Apple.
This demonstrates one of the hazards of showing what your stuff will look like a year from now. You try to do something great, and your biggest customers say, "that's great! Now make it look more like xp!"
@crenelle 98SE was better IMO. XP had too much colourful crap by default. Aero was much nicer, you just have to make it black.
@MJF

Far more people than simply professional devs appear to have downloaded this pre-beta version. Are you getting any impression that MS is taking any notice of what these uber early adopters are saying in the various blogs? Or is MS only paying attention to what the "official" devs say?
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@FrederickLeeson
Who on Earth does MS think the "official devs" are developing for?
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Contributr
"testers"
Mary Jo Foley 12th Oct
Hi. They seem to be looking at the feedback from anyone providing it via their Building Windows 8 blog and other channels. Surprisingly (to me) they are making some changes (albeit minor ones) in response to those weighing in. There's no elite core of testers (that I know of) this time around, like there was with Win 7 (the "test pilots").. MJ
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Gee, just think...
ScorpioBlue 13th Oct
...MS is actually listening to their customers... lol...
I'm don't know why full-screen should be a forced thing. The task bar is a very useful thing for me, even when I am looking for another application to launch, I depend on the information I have in the task bar. Can't the metro screen have a setting to include the task bar on a desktop computer? By the same token, full screen applications are very claustrophobic to me. A simple setting to allow expanded instead of full screen windows would be very useful. I often have things running that I need to monitor, even when I'm using another application, without having to switch screens constantly.

And I'm really really sick of hearing the old nut about some people being afraid of change. I am all for change and improvements, but some things are tried and true. How many of you would drive a car without windows, just because it's "the next new thing"?

There's a lot to like about windows 8 so far, and I'm sure when it does release all of these little things will be addressed either by Microsoft, third parties or little hacks.
@mwheeler@...

Um...Windows 8 does have the task bar. If you want to use Windows 8 as a traditional desktop OS you can. I barely even see the new Start screen because I use the taskbar for the apps I use 95% of the time.
@mwheeler@...
The real question here is: How many companies wo make an automobile without windows?? My countrymen, that is the question???
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There's an App for That
jpr75_z 11th Oct
There is already an app for Windows 8 that will disable the Metro interface as the default. And that screen shot above is just plain ugly. That is not the design goal for Metro - will never happen. But MS will have to make some concessions for businesses. Big corps will not likely go for a Metro interface - And don't forget this is Alpha software. We will be seeing some changes down the road.
http://www.thewindowsclub.com/metro-ui-tweaker-windows-8-released
@jpr75_z
That's development preview only. It will definitely be removed in full version.
@jpr75_z
Do you not realise that there is no such thing as a 'metro interface' in Windows 8? The start menu is just one place you can launch applications from. It doesn't alter or interfere with the desktop unless you choose to use it. Even then you'd only see it for a couple of seconds at a time while you're finding the application you want to open.

As for corporations: what do you think the average office pleb would find easier to navigate: a text-based, small, fiddly menu full of often irrelevant folders and icons or a full-screen, graphic list of only the applications they need to know about?
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Design By Committee
ldo17 11th Oct
Did Steve Jobs ever make concessions to tester complaints?
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I don't know. Did he?
Zogg 12th Oct
@ldo17
Was that a rhetorical question?
menu in OS X. The list is actually fairly lengthy.
@ldo17

Yes, plenty of times. Apple does listen to their users.
@itguy10 - "You can't just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them. By the time you get it built, they'll want something new." - Steve Jobs.
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@sch4mmer
baggins_z 12th Oct
There is a difference between listening to customers and being herded about by customers.
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Power users...
wright_is 11th Oct
I still haven't seen any review cover "productivity" users.

How does Windows 8 work in dual or multi-head mode? How do you have 3 or 4 reference windows visible, when working on a document?
@wright_is
Excellent point. If there is no possibility for having multiple (that's more than 2) applications open at the same time in the metro interface, then I will never use it. If I'm always in the desktop, why would I not wish to have all of the desktop tools I have become accustomed to available?
@rshol - you check your emails side-by-side? Play games side-by-side? As a developer, I hear the "if you can't do this then it's worthless" complaint a million times, and have learned it's almost never true.
@rshol I have, from left to right, Tweetdeck, Outlook, Word/Excel/Project in the middle, Firefox and in a vertical stack on the right edge of the screen Skype and Trillian.

On dual 24" displays, there is more than enough space for all of those apps running side by side.

I'll also overlap 2nd or 3rd Word or Excel windows left and right of the main window, when I am working on a new document and need to constantly refer to the other documents as I am typing.
They should have done a better job at copying Jobs. Launch pad isn't a complete redesign of OS X. It just incorporates iOS gui features.
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Windows 8 = Vista 2.0
croberts 12th Oct
Even Apple understood the need to run OS 9 apps when they designed OS X, and they understood the need to run powerPC apps when they switched to x86.

Microsoft is CLUELESS. No one is going to buy Win ARM tablets if you can't run windows software on them. Honestly, what would be the point? We might as well all buy our iPads now, because there will never be the richness of Apps on Microsoft's latest bastardized creation.

As far as the UI, the critical comments regarding putting a tablet UI on non-touch desktop PCs speaks volumes to how out of touch (no pun intended) Microsoft is.

Windows 8 will be Vista 2.0, with people hanging on to Windows 7 until the last possible moment, just like they did with XP.
@croberts

I think your Windows 8 perception is wrong.

The new OS will likely end-up addressing two distinct markets: the Windows 7 continuation and the slate/tablet market.

The first, as we all know, does require application compatibility and thus, the legacy/modernized Windows desktop mode.

In the other hand, the slate/tablet market already proved that it is mostly platform agnostic. People want a device that turns-on quickly, last long on batteries, can browse the internet efficiently, access e-mail using a decent client app, consume media and install apps/games through a store. In this scenario, the whole Windows legacy stuff is irrelevant. And Microsoft is right to pursue the major revamping process going on with the touch experience. Let's just hope critics from evolution-resistant minds won't affect the process too much.
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Amusing
croberts 12th Oct
@TheCyberKnight

"evolution-resistant minds won't affect the process too much"

Well, even the most successful tablet company (Apple) knew enough that desktop and tablet OSes are two separate beasts.

*Devices* are evolving, and there needs to be an OS on each of them that evolves with their capabilities. You seem to think it should be the *same* OS. I think (and based on the reaction I'm not alone) that this is an idea that will sink Windows 8.
@TheCyberKnight
completely agree!! Plus, we now know why so many predicted the demise of the desktop. They want to keep it a dinosarus. Go figure!
EDIT: wrong reply
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You lack vision
spaulagain Updated - 12th Oct
@croberts

You think only in terms of where we are today. Microsoft sees the future, they recognize that in over the next 5 years and beyond, touch/gesture UI's are going to be going far beyond the phone and tablet.

Just watch Iron Man, or Minority Report, then maybe you will grasp the vision Microsoft sees but you don't have.

Their goal is to create one OS that runs on various devices and adapts to the devices optimal UI. That way they can insure a smooth experience between devices AND so that any device can be "transformed" by simply adding input devices like a keyboard or mouse.

Think about it, you can have a tablet that works on the go, but you can snap a thin keyboard and mouse pad for in depth production at an Airport or something. Or, when you are home you can dock it into a more extensive set up like your TV that has Kinect and use gestures, or your desktop that has a larger screen/keyboard/mouse.
@spaulagain Sigh, well I disagree with the first part of your post. The UIs in Iron Man/Minority Report/Matrix (Zion's Computers) do NOT work and you will find a lot of useability studies on those if you took a course on HCI. To put it simply, humans dislike and deviate away from UIs requiring excessive energy consuming motions. One simple way to test it urself is to see how long can you hold your arm up horizontally. You'll find it becomes tiring pretty fast. Broad based touch UI is something we KNOW is not good. There is a pretty good reason the ancient typewriter and its modern cousin "keyboard" have survived this long! Those cool looking UI's look heavenly in movies for sure, but they aren't something you would want to work with on a daily basis trust me.

Agree with the rest of your post though.
even copies Apple's bad ideas (launchpad).
@baggins_z - ecxept if you don't like Launchpad you never, ever have to go into it.
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How is this better?
itguy10 12th Oct
How are huge screens of tiles for programs better than a small Start menu that has everything on one compact screen? Hint, they are not.

The Win 8 UI is a mess and needs to be scrapped.
I've been using this on my ThinkPad x220t since the initial release. I think everyone is being way too kind to the Win8 development team. Bottom line is, I DO NOT find the new start screen to be any benefits at all. As a matter of fact, it's annoying, especially if you are using a tablet PC/laptop. I like the Metro UI on my phone, but on the desktop, it just looks hideous. In addition, the start screen should not be treated as a Start screen, it should be treated as the "New Desktop" allowing applications to dock within the "Start Screen"... For example, I use "Trillian" for my chat client. The Live Tiles can show updates. However, I want the ability for the chat client to be more than just displaying info. I want it to have the ability do more than just showing a feed. This is a desktop, not a phone and they should put more thoughts into giving it more power as to taking features out.
Why is Microsoft fixing something that isn't broken. The Tile interface is good for tablets, but the desktop interface has been continuously improved for 15 years and is far superior to the new tablet interface. I will stick with Windows 7 on anything but tablets for as long as I possibly can. I have tried the Window 8 on my HP Touchsmart, and as a tablet it works well, but when I convert back to the laptop, it is significantly inferior to the Windows 7 interface.
Enough already!
My users are still "fighting" Windows 7.
And nobody's using Office 10, I had to uninstall it due to the outcry.
Change for the sake of change?
So it looks more like a tablet, or to have a cool Facebook interface?
Just as we're still using XP, we'll be using Windows 7 for as long as it's supported.
As others mentioned, business (and home-office) users have no need for the Metro nonsense.
And get apps rewritten for Metro?
Comeon, people, let's be serious.
Already went thru the pain (and expense) of upgrading to a Win7 version.
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IBM DOS 5
justthisguyyouknow 12th Oct
My first IBM-compatible PC was in fact an IBM running IBM DOS 5. On boot, it went to a screen where several large clickable tiles were placed, serving as a menu for programs.

It was horrible, and I almost immediately replaced the IBM DOS with MS DOS so I could scrap the welcome screen and have more control over the machine.

With Windows 8, MS seems to want to take us back to those days. I'll stick with Windows 7, thank you anyway.
Seems geared to "Power Losers" who only use a few apps. I have HUNDREDS of application icons in the Start menu and creating "task" folders of shortcuts is the only way I can access them in any reasonable fashion. If they leave this out and make me go to the stupid desktop and scroll through HUNDREDS of stupid tiles every time I want to access something, I'll buy a Mac (after being a PC snob for 24 years!!).
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Vista all over again.
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