Microsoft to simplify downgrades from Vista to XP

By | June 28, 2007, 11:02am PDT

Microsoft is simplifying the processes via which its PC-maker partners will be able to provide “downgrade” rights from Windows Vista to Windows XP for their customers.

Microsoft will implement the first of the policy changes for its Gold Certified (top-tier) OEM partners within the next couple of weeks. The company will streamline downgrade-rights policies and procedures for the broader channel somewhat later, said John Ball, general manager of Microsoft’s U.S. Systems Group.

Under current licensing terms, Microsoft allows customers buying PCs preloaded with Windows Vista Ultimate and Vista Business to roll back to Windows XP until they are ready to make the move to Vista. For OEMs, the process via which these rights can be activated has been quite cumbersome, Ball acknowledged.

Under the current rules, OEMs must call about and file for each and every machine the license keys required to downgrade from Vista to XP. But Microsoft is planning to move to a new policy which will allow its top 170 OEM partners to submit these keys online for groups of machines, which will save them time and reduce complexity, Ball said.

Microsoft is working on ways to allow the rest of the channel to take advantage of these simplified downgrade procedures, but is still in the midst of hashing out the details, Ball said. He didn’t have a timetable for when Microsoft will make its more liberal downgrade-rights policies available to the rest of its PC partners.

Microsoft doesn’t view the popularity of user requests to downgrade from Vista to XP as a ding against Vista, Ball emphasized. In fact, at Microsoft’s Worldwide Partner Conference in Denver in July, Microsoft plans to evanglize Vista to its OEM and system-builder partners, and play up Vista’s momentum as proof that system vendors should get on the Vista bandwagon, Ball said.

Ball said Microsoft officials will highlight data meant to counteract the impression by some that Vista isn’t doing well in the marketplace. Among the datapoints Microsoft will emphasize, according to Ball:

  • Ninety-nine percent of all Windows PCs sold at retail are being sold with Vista preloaded
  • Seventy-eight percent of PCs preloaded with Vista are shipping with “premium” SKUs (like Vista Ultimate and Vista Home Premium)
  • Microsoft is experiencing 21 percent fewer support calls with Vista than it did with Windows XP
  • Fewer security issues that need patching with Vista than XP (five Vista issues in the first 90 days vs. 18 with XP in the first 90 days)
  • Device compatibility is high and getting higher daily

All this sounds good on (virtual) paper. Like my ZDNet blogging colleague Ed Bott, I wouldn’t go so far as to call Vista “Windows Me2.” But I know I still wouldn’t want to be a Vista salesperson….

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

112
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

RE: Microsoft to simplify downgrades from Vista to XP
makrekwe43-24353610246223524542078755276719 12th Nov
izdjyr,good post!
0 Votes
+ -
BS

Yeah, there's hardware running in half-assed mode, but running at full feature-full performance isn't even close to being there yet.

Those with 8800GTX cards, for one example, know what I mean.
0 Votes
+ -
Is that MS's fault?
fuzzymuff@... 28th Jun 2007
I would blame the hardware vendors for slacking the last 5 years it was in development. What kind of morons are they considering there have been dozens and dozens of beta builds before vista finally came out.
0 Votes
+ -
Erm
zkiwi 28th Jun 2007
In case you forget, around 2-ish years ago Microsoft pretty much completely redid Vista/Longhorn. I guess the hardware vendors were weren't able to redo their drivers to work with Vista in time and are probably upset that their world was changed in mid-flight.

I wonder whose fault it was for having to redo Vista? Hmmm, I guess it must have been Creative Labs, nVidia, ATI, and everyone else who makes hardware which has issues with Vista. Not!
0 Votes
+ -
erm....
xuniL_z 28th Jun 2007
it was around 3ish years ago now, and are you trying to say that 2ish to 3ish years was not enough time for these vendors? Many, if not all of these vendors exist because of Microsoft so you'd like to think they'd give it the good old college try. They had unprecedented access to the code, tools and microsoft for that 2ish to 3ish years. My bet is that rewriting the code on the server 2003 kernel did not change everything related to device drivers either. It's still the same Vista, only with a different kernel (from the same family) and a new security oriented coding method. I doubt everything changed for these vendors but I'm not sure. I have no problem admitting that. Still, they had plenty of time. There have been those that worked for large OEMs post on here and they pointed out it was the vendors at fault. They've had it too easy for too long and just weren't active enough in addressing this new OS (which people like yourself had been screaming for, for a long time. More secure, new kernel, not just XP refreshed etc. etc. )

Either way you look at it, what is your motive to post what you did? Because you hate Microsoft or you truely believe the vendors didn't have enough time and resources to nail this? You are simply unbelievable at times with your sneering attitude on things.

see ya, wouldn't want to be ya.
0 Votes
+ -
Agree
NonZealot 28th Jun 2007
My bet is that rewriting the code on the server 2003 kernel did not change everything related to device drivers either.

I've installed enough XP drivers in Vista to confirm this.
0 Votes
+ -
Conspicuous by its absence
zkiwi 28th Jun 2007
Is any mention from you of VCP. A fun Microsoft technology that makes it harder .

Also, you may have missed this little comment from Cisco: "A Cisco spokesperson says the company believed it would be best to wait until the final version of Vista was available to start working on the VPN Client upgrade to avoid having to rewrite code due to late Vista changes."

Who would have thought. Microsoft making such late changes that it would be best to wait on writing drivers. Dang, I guess that must be the fault of the poor saps who are too clueless to code in anticipation of Microsoft's code changes.
Nvidia and Creative both made these claims in late 2006. These were lame excuses to many people, particularly those that looked at other vendors who were having much better success.

The positive spin is that both Nvidia and Creative have alienated a large segment of the tech community with their laziness.
0 Votes
+ -
Facts, please...
Solid Water 28th Jun 2007
I did not get it - are you a software engineer who is writing drivers for MS Vista?

Maybe you are a manager that oversees MS Vista driver project?

Could you give us some facts about NVidia & Creative being lazy?

I am in embedded avionics SW
0 Votes
+ -
It's a NO Brainer!
i2fun@... 2nd Jul 2007
YOU MAY BE A NO BRAINER!
Broken code is broken code. MS didn't do what they should have done in the first place, sh*t can the whole mess and start from scratch. You have folders with no purpose, left in for what? To remind people Vista is just a poor upgrade from XP to an already previously inferior system?

Then we have people like you who take MS's words as gospel truth and start criticizing Companies like Cisco, Nvidia , and Creative, when they've always provided the best drivers in the business. Who's Deaf, Dumb, and Blind here? Maybe YOU!

It doesn't take a Genius to figure out that MS has another ME2 on their hands. The only way to really fix it is speed up work on Vienna, to replace it. Before the "Dead Rising" on their dying game console comes out devours them!

They should have stuck to Operating Systems (at least they know little about them), instead of thinking they have any clue about manufacturing hardware!!!
0 Votes
+ -
no brainer
xuniL_z 2nd Jul 2007
Vista was rewritten starting in 2004 on the server2003 kernel using a much more robust component and security lifecycle model. Driver incompatibilities and program incompatibilities are from those products not written to spec. Windows programs have rarely be written to Microsoft's ubiquitous documentation since 3.1. That's just a fact and now programs must follow programming guidelines for the platform or they won't work. Simple as that. As for drivers, they are appearing more and more and nvidea for example has out a line of GPUs supporting directX10 now that are Vista ready. DirectX 10 games haven't even hit the shelves as far as I know.

I'm sure being an ABMer is fun, but Vista is a great OS that is decidedly much more secure, even according even to the anti-ms liberal press, and the telling facts here are that Microsoft has sold more versions of Vista than it did XP in the same time frame. OEMs are stepping up their nex gen machines and most all of them have directX10 support and santa rosa technology...same specs as a macbook, made by the same companies (namely one in Taiwan) and hopefully DRM will go away so it can stop plauging Apple and Microsoft. Linux can't play protected content, even though Linus Torvalds spoke in favor of DRM as useful technology.


I think Vista, looked at seriously w/o the "DRM that Microsoft apparently created??" is a great OS with a great set of foundation classes from which to build next gen apps. Silverlight is a great example of a platform built on Vista technology.


I still am running XP but have worked with vista machines at a few sites and have seen little problems...besides old programs that write everthing inside of a system directory. So there is some niche need to have XP, hence why Microsoft is doing this, but that will fade away just like it did for XP and win2Kpro and before that win98 and before that win95..remember the incompatibilities with win95? Turned out to be a very good OS however and was extremely popular.

Every OS needs time to work out the bugs. Most linux distros that run in perpetual beta don't have the media's focus to show how God awful they really are, but looking at secunia over the last few years, I am sure I'm seeing no better record from large OSS projects in the bug category. Same from Apple, who has the luxury of taking that commodity hardware (asus machines etc.) and tweaking their software to run well on ONE configuration. Even then we end up with Megapatch after megapatch. Still waiting for the "megapatches" to be released for Vista. When they are, then come back and we'll talk more.
Or when Firefox stops moving in the direction of major bloatware and gets back to where it can even be remotely as fast as IE7....we'll talk some more.
0 Votes
+ -
erm...
Solid Water 28th Jun 2007
Hardware vendors, probably, were not sure if Microsoft not to decide of change gears again. happy
0 Votes
+ -
Yes, I'm quite sure you are right
xuniL_z 29th Jun 2007
Microsoft partners have no contact with Redmond and it was wise to wait until After the release to start building drivers.


So you are right. As usual, it was Microsoft's fault. There, that should make you happier.
happy
0 Votes
+ -
HW Vendors & Microsoft
devlin_X 30th Jun 2007
" Many, if not all of these vendors exist because of Microsoft "

You really need to look back into computer history. Many of these companies were around well before Microsoft. A good example... My 1st computer system was an Epson QX-10 running CP/M 80, It didn't have any Microsoft in it yet it still required a graphics adapter, drives, keyboard, monitor, printer, modem (300bps but still a modem). Microsoft could have never materialized yet all the present day hardware vendors likely would still be present because the need would still be there for their product, just a different OS would be in place.

Hey I don't run Microsoft but I do need all the same hardware..

devlin_X
Vista....failure for a new generation
0 Votes
+ -
I was with you....
xuniL_z 2nd Jul 2007
right up to your last statement, then your credibility was shot. That's pure ignorance. It doesn't take into account sales figures or the millions of happy customers. If every Windows user running Vista was encountering the horror stories ABMers are trying to propogate and the anti-ms liberal media, don't you think it would be front page news? A lead story on the nightly news? If the unworthiness of Vista were true, every user would have asked for a replacement by now and those 10s of millions of cases would surely have not escaped the media's attention to be sure.

So we have a very solid and secure OS that is very cutting edge. Yes, to utilize it's full power you need a newer PC. Now that santa rosa machines with 2.4Ghz processors and 800Mhz FSB, Nvidea GPUs that support next gen windows games, i.e. directX 10, are out....the last crop of Vista READY machines are legacy and the full year before Vista had many models...in fact going back up to 5 years there are many models that will run Vista Business w/o Aero. As the ABMers stated, Aero was uneccessary "eye candy" anyway.

So really, like the XP release, win2K, win98, win95, we are seeing growing pains. The nature of the beast. Same with ANY linux distro (just no media coverage of their failures....the underdog is always treated with kid's gloves by the media, esp Linux which has a very liberal base w/ a very liberal media.

ABMers would LOVE nothing more than to say Vista is a ME2 and a failure. but nothing points to that at all in real life. The win2K3 kernel is excellent. The component oriented architecture creates a windows that can be updated much more easily and functionality added on the fly at any level. The security lifecycle coding model is also paying big dividends. If you don't like MS, that's fine, but why spread FUD. Vista is a fine OS, the hardware companies are making ALL of their machines to accomodate Vista in a big way....they have for some time but now they are going next gen support...and with many more copies of Vista sold than XP in the same opening 5 months, many fewer support calls and record revenues...i'm not sure where anyone is seeing a "failure". Other than pure ABM hyperbole and envy and hate.
0 Votes
+ -
"the media's attention"
Ole Man 6th Jul 2007
Is right where the big money wants it to
be, and that includes Microsoft's money
which is the biggest money of all.

If you don't know that, you don't know
nuthin. Therefore, anything you say
amounts to nuthin, or nuthin you say
amounts to anything. Take your choice.
If a significant number of major vendors are having trouble writing drivers for Vista then I'm afraid that does tend to point the finger at Vista. Trying to argue that they're all somehow inept is only credible if we're talking about a small number, like "one".

"Many, if not all of these vendors exist because of Microsoft so you'd like to think they'd give it the good old college try. They had unprecedented access to the code, tools and microsoft for that 2ish to 3ish years."

I'm sure that every single one of them did a far sight more than a "good old college try"! But it would seem that 2-3 years of "unprecedented access" were not enough.
0 Votes
+ -
By that you mean what?
xuniL_z 2nd Jul 2007
Which vendors don't have Vista compatible drivers? Name them please. I don't have Vista. I've played with it at a few sites and most everything they need is fine. Some legacy app issues, but those were worked around. Some still need a Vista release. Is that Microsoft's fault. Really, the cases I see are with niche vendors that are never on top of anything.

On the other hand, some not only have support for the technologies present when Vista released, but subsequent releases of those Microsoft technologies now have driver support.
0 Votes
+ -
"Is that Microsoft's fault"?
Ole Man 6th Jul 2007
Of course not! No more than it's GM's
fault for anything wrong with any of
their autos. Or Ford's fault for
anything wrong with their trucks. Or
Singer's fault for anything wrong with
their sewing machines. Or Symantec's
fault for anything wrong with their
software.

Who, in their right mind, would think
that it's a manufacturer's fault for
anything wrong with any of the products
they produced?
0 Votes
+ -
oh....as to
xuniL_z 28th Jun 2007
your accusation that i'm on zdnet more than you. I've noticed a zkiwi that posts on up to a dozen blogs at a time. Just yesterday evening I noticed the moniker zwiki had posts on at least 8 seperate blogs. I normally only post to one or two blogs at time....that is my norm, but it can be higher. Not as high as you by any stretch, but you like "flipping off" as many people as you can, at any given time is what I've noticed. I've not once noticed you compliment someone's post or agree with someone. Did you ever notice that the original purpose of these forums was to not just reply to those you disagree with, in a snotty way no less, but to share and bounce ideas around with those you don't as well. Microsoft is having a problem that is affecting their userbase? Would it ever occur to you to post something useful that might help those people, rather than using it for political purposes to post more rhetoric? If you are a software engineer then I would suspect you could provide something useful now and than, rather than posting as a pundit with an anger problem 100% of the time.


Also, as to my time on here, did it ever occur to you there may be a reason i have time to do this at this particular point in my life? I of course don't care what you believe, but you might consider all of the possibilities that do exist for someone to have a break in their career, w/o it being of their choice and not related to any slack in work or loss of work or standing whatsoever. In fact there are reasons for it in which clients are behind you the whole way and happy you can still keep in touch enough to keep the most important projects moving forward and an eye on things during that time. It's nice to have people that truely care about you and do everything they can to pick up their game for you during those times.
0 Votes
+ -
It doesn't matter WHO's fault it is. The net effect is the inability to be as productive with Vista as with XP.

That's the bottom line. I don't care about blame. I just care about the productivity.
Until M$ makes nice with the device driver writers.

M$ has imposed very high costs for those who are writing/testing Vista device drivers. Those factors are going to stunt development for a long time to come.

New drivers for older out of production devices.. forget it..
.
Microsoft presents the VISTA PERCEPTION IS REALITY TOUR!
Sponsored by Eli Lilly and Company -- Makers of Prozac(tm)

As many of you know, our slogan at Microsoft is "Your potential. Our passion(tm).". Also, like many of you, we learn new things as we go. Since January 30th, we have learned that we cannot be passionate only about your potential. We must also be passionate about your perception. For some of you, your perception about Vista is holding back your potential, and ours.

In the coming months, we'll be visiting hundreds of cities around the globe in the "Vista Perception is Reality Tour". Simply put: If you perceive that Vista is good, it is! Our tour includes some famous guest speakers. We're very pleased that Napoleon Hill, author of "Think and Grow Rich", will be presenting on our tour. We know that many people think Mr. Hill is dead. But, he perceives he is still alive and he will be there! He is a "living" testimonial to the power of positive thinking. And, positive thinking is the key to liking Vista.

The "Vista Perception is Reality Tour" is going to change everything. Be sure to attend when it comes to your town.



Our new slogan: Your perception. Our passion(tm).

As everyone knows, we're LOADED! We have used some of that cash to acquire the Eli Lilly Company lock, stock, and apothecary jar. We've also acquired the Rite Aid pharmacy and renamed it "The Microsoft Store".

In order to help you with your perception about Vista, our Eli Lilly Division has developed and released a new drug called Vistac(tm) (formerly code named Prozac 2.0). During the beta (aka drug trial), it was tested extensively by Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer, and by Tux as part of our commitment to Linux interoperability (1). Of course, it's patented, and we expect to make a bundle off of it.

Each box of Windows Vista now contains a coupon for a complimentary lifetime supply of Microsoft Vistac(TM). We want you to be happy all of the time, whether your Vista computer is infested with malware, you have a BSOD, or you are on the phone to us in Bangalore getting re-activated. We are confident that Vistac(tm) is going to permanently take care of any Vista perception problems that you have.

Note: Those who attend a "Vista Perception is Reality Tour" event will receive a trial version of Windows Vista Ultimate and a complimentary trial size of Vistac(tm).



Vista SP1 is Coming Soon!

Cadence is critical with all meds, so Vista SP1 will include a new feature that reminds you when it is time to take your Vistac(tm) pill. It also automatically orders your free refills over the Internet and will remind you to go to your local Microsoft Store to pick them up. The reminders appear in the lower-right corner of the screen where the WGA de-activation messages appear. For example:

Hey George Ou! It's time to take your Vistac(tm) pill! After you take it, please wait 30 minutes then click "Next". The Windows Genuine Advantage has a very important message for you (Important: Be sure to wait the full 30 minutes to allow time for Vistac to work).

[Editor's Note: Love ya, George! happy ]



A Vista Testimonial from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)

Dr. Seymore "Pinky" L. Phants, CTO at the FDA, writes:

"At the FDA, we upgraded all of our workstations to Vista two months ago. Since then, nobody has been able to connect to the server. Sound doesn't work. Videos are choppy. It takes 5 minutes to boot. Performance generally sucks. Many of our applications do not work correctly. And, many machines are down and have the BSOD.

All of us at the FDA were also part of the Vistac(tm) beta release (aka drug trial). And, I have to tell you, we think Vista is the greatest operating system ever created. The problems are very small really. We're laughing a lot more often and our computing experience is just great! Vista on Vistac(tm) is SO much better than XP!

Our examiners enthusiastically approved Vistac(tm) for sale over the counter and we wholeheartedly recommend Windows Vista(tm) to all computer users! Thanks for making such a great product!"


Well said, Dr. Phants! THANK YOU for your kind words, and congratulations on your Vista success story.



Call to Action

Now get out there, buy your Vista upgrade, and Proceed With Confidence(tm)! And, know that if you take your Vistac(tm) as directed, the "WOW" will REALLY start! We guarantee it!



Sincerely,

Your friends at Microsoft Corporation
Your perception. Our passion(tm).



------------------------------------------

(1) Steve Ballmer and Tux on Vistac(tm) during the beta test (drug trial)
Can you tell which penguin is on Vistac(tm)?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4IMhChV3XE
0 Votes
+ -
*yawn*
xuniL_z 28th Jun 2007
careful, Apple already has a copyright on that for Leopard.
0 Votes
+ -
No sense of humor for you, huh?
TechExec2 28th Jun 2007
.
I guess Microsoft's stunningly poor Vista release, and stunning lack of candor about it, are just too serious of a subject for you.

I'm no *nix zealot. I've been a Microsoft customer since 1992. But, I don't have blinders on. Anybody who "Proceeds With Confidence" before SP1, or SP2, or maybe even Windows 2009/2010, deserves the trouble they get.
0 Votes
+ -
the same was said about
xuniL_z 28th Jun 2007
every window's OS, so take it for what it's worth.

There are more PCs running Vista after 5 months now, than there were PCs running XP after 5 months. And look where XP is today.
I guess if you call that "stunningly poor", that's your choice.
0 Votes
+ -
Message has been deleted.
Cardinal_Bill Updated - 29th Jun 2007
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
from Windows/Vista to Windows/XP TA-DA TA-DA!!!

happy

Do not kill me - I use Windows XP at work as well as maintain Linux server for a developer's team (and Linux desktop at home). wink
i'm not having any troubles and most are not having any.

are there some having troubles yes but thats the way it is with a totally rewritten os.

i work on mac' pc's and pc's with Linux installed and all of them have problems and when they have a major change in there code. there are growing pains it's just the way it is if you can't deal with it stay with the older technologically. wait for the new code to mature and then deploy it.

but don't whine like a school girl who just broke a nail
0 Votes
+ -
.
"...are there some having troubles yes but thats the way it is with a totally rewritten os..."

Excuses. Excuses. Tsk. Tsk.

As discussed in this blog article, Microsoft is making it easier for OEMs to downgrade licenses from Vista to XP. Somebody at Microsoft must not have gotten the memo that "Vista is Ready Today(tm)" and customers should "Proceed With Confidence(tm)". It's probably the same person who recently briefed the press that Microsoft will allow Vista Home to be run in a VM. He had to be yanked back on that one as well.

Take in all of Microsoft's absurd denials (hey...Vista's ready...go for it), contrary actions (Vista to XP downgrades) and the ecosystem crowd's laughable excuse-making, and what do you have left?

Vista is a billion dollar 5-year disaster. Period. In any normal Fortune 50 corporation, all the executive heads responsible for the disaster would have already rolled. Life IS different when you're a monopoly.



If you are really not having problems with Vista...

If you are really not having problems with Vista, then there is something very very different about you. Without exception, every person I have spoken with who is trying to run Vista beyond Windows Mail, IE7, and MS Office 2007, is having lots of problems. Hardware driver problems. Application compatibility problems. WGA capricious de-activation problems. Even choppy video. shocked

Or, you could just be part of the Microsoft ecosystem and having "candor problems" just like Microsoft... laugh

"...most are not having any problems..."

What a maroon! (as Bugs Bunny says) laugh
0 Votes
+ -
I guess I'm in the minority. I'm having no problems with Vista and it's been on my machine since December
0 Votes
+ -
.
Google reports 91 MILLION hits on "vista problem". Didn't Microsoft recently brag about selling 40 million copies? That's a lot of hits per copy.

Enough said! Vista is a disaster.



--------------------------------------------

91 MILLION Google hits on "vista problem"
http://www.google.com/search?q=vista+problem&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

54 MILLION Yahoo hits on "vista problem"
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=vista+problem&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

2.7 MILLION MSN hits on "vista problem"
Gee. I wonder why Microsoft would have a much lower number than Google and Yahoo? laugh
It's called SEARCH MANIPULATION. Another reason to not use MSN search.
"Vista is ready today(tm)". "Proceed With Confidence(tm)".
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=vista+problem&FORM=MSNH
open source problem, Linux problem and Apple problem respectively.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Open+source+problem&hl=en


This indicates that Vista is over twice as good as Linux and half again as good as Apple.
that's about the way I've always had it figured.


Thanks for bringing this up. If Windows is a failure, then Linux and Apple were No Shows.
0 Votes
+ -
Nice try. Doesn't fly.
TechExec2 2nd Jul 2007
.
The bottom line is that Vista has been out just a few months and is having lots of problems. The Google search I cited just reflects that. Customers are demanding XP in large numbers, so much so that Microsoft is making it easier for OEMs to downgrade from Vista to XP.

The terms "open source", "linux", and "apple" have been out for decades. There should be more hits on older terms, just like there are 420 MILLION hits on "windows problem" and 324 MILLION hits on "microsoft problem".

Microsoft, and Microsoft's lackeys, can make excuses, run PR campaigns, and outright lie all day long. It won't change the simple fact that Vista is a 5-year multi-billion dollar disaster.



----------------------------------

420 MILLION hits on "windows problem"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=windows+problem&btnG=Google+Search

324 MILLION hits on "microsoft problem"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=microsoft+problem&btnG=Search
0 Votes
+ -
Mac fans won't like this.....
xuniL_z 2nd Jul 2007
But since your esteemed colleage has found a method for determing OS failures. Brace yourselves. Mac OS X problem search yielded 277,000,000 hits.


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Mac+OS+X++problem&btnG=Search


i'm only the messenger.
0 Votes
+ -
wow, you are a zealot.
xuniL_z 2nd Jul 2007
ok then. Well, as you know your little experiment is based on ignorance. The search terms return anything that has either, or both words in it. So you are just as desperate as the rest to poke holes in Vista, but you can't stop it. Sorry.

the hardware vendors continue to make their latest and greatest machines more and more and more vista friendly. We have a lot of machines now already supporting DirectX 10, which nothing has been released for yet. Powerful GPUs designed for Vista machines....and the santa rosa technology, 800 Mgz FSB...every vendor has it now...you can get a great Vista Ultimate LAPTOP with 2.4Ghz core 2 duo, 320GB disc (2 160s), 512MB of GPU ram and high end nvidea GPU w/turbocache, 2 GB of ram, HD Drive, tv tuner...the works for under 2K.


Vista sales through March were 40 million, and by now Vista is farther and much more comfortably in a larger marketshare than any other OS on the x86 platform.
Now we can use your logic...Vista has only been around 5 months....Apple and Linux are terms that go way back....yet Vista has blown them both away already. How ironic for such a failure....to have blown by an OS that's been available since the early 90s in the case of Linux.

Haaaaaha ha ha ha haaa....keep on whining, cause Vista is only going to keep on selling. The sales are climbing. And with the great Office 2007 sales....you know those that still need XP for now....as you stated about this article...they can go back if they have business or ultimate only.....so it's only PCs with business/networking....and obviously there are niche app issues etc....but they have retained their Vista license for when they are ready. And with that heavy load of Office 2007.....you know it's just a matter of time before the XP users become Vista users. A new day is upon us, a Vista day.
.
Just another very weak response that completely side-steps the sad truth about Vista.

The very poor state of Vista is indefensible. So, you Microsoft lackeys attack those telling the pathetic truth about Vista instead (although you sound a lot more like a fanboy in that last post). Happens every time. I am completely irrelevant in this. But, my argument about Vista is relevant. Vista is not ready now. Period.

Zealot? Whining? Nonsense! Unlike you, I have no stake in Microsoft winning or losing market share. I don't care.

So, have fun with that WGA capricious de-activation! And, enjoy those re-activation calls to Bangalore! (1) laugh



-------------------------------------

(1) Bangalore Tech Support
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fWpV_6Y_vY&mode=related&search=
0 Votes
+ -
you are serious?
xuniL_z 3rd Jul 2007
In 3 months of it's launch, Vista had surpassed Linux total marketshare and Mac marketshare on the x86 platform. You ABMers are all the same. On a mission to smear Microsoft at any cost, ignoring how much, in reality now, of Vista is a great new OS with great libraries and programming tools and high end 3D graphics continually improving. New programs, new and old partners alike springing to life around Vista. You don't fool me, I get so many trade publications from non Microsoft affiliated publishers to know Vista is attracting a huge following, as would any Microsoft OS.

I have not stake in Microsoft, i just can't stand people like you that post this kind of crap with nothing to back it up except vague Google searches that have relationship to anything. As I said, and you conveniently sidestepped, posting the words you did would return every hit with those 2 words anywhere in the link and/or either word. Not even a full fledged radical would be honestly fooled by that.

Meanwhile, The FSF (Forced Software Fanatics) are trying to, via a license, tell us how software must be written, only OSS can submit for standards, any other software is evil, you should not own a cell phone, get married or ever have kids (per Stalin...i mean Stallman) but devote you lives to the great cause of government backed (tax breaks for Mozilla and FSF as prime examples) software that will be dumped on the market. Forget the 90+% that prefer Windows, always has and still does no matter what other companies with the DoJ in their pockets do, not matter what people like you say, those who believe in capitalism, a good economy and good jobs are more than willing to pay for their software and always will. To that majority, the open source camp are radicals and socialists and they want nothing to do with them.

As for Apple, they make a fine product with rebranded hardware from ODMs...the same that make HP, toshiba, Dells etc. and they have an OS that is the only differentiating factor in the mix now (and has been since they moved to x86). I find windows to be much more valuable, productive and useful. Some find OS X for that reason. VEry few find Linux for that....just the way it is, and will be for generations to come.


Have fun with your PC or it's components mostly made in Taiwan or China or somewhere outside the U.S. and watch out for overuse of heat sink glue.
0 Votes
+ -
Thanks for the links, Xuny
Ole Man 6th Jul 2007
Now let's look at a few links from those
who are NOT in Microsoft's "pocket",
shall we?

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-275366.html

Security problems open Microsoft's
Wallet
Software flaws in the security of
Microsoft's Passport authentication
system left consumers' financial data
wide open, causing the software giant to
remove a key service from the Internet
to protect people from having their data
stolen, a company representative
acknowledged Friday.

http://news.com.com/More+WMF+problems+for+Microsoft/2100-1002_3-6024931.html

Just days after Microsoft rushed out a
patch to fix a critical Windows flaw
related to the processing of Windows
Meta File images, two more problems with
the component were flagged.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=8411

Yet more security problems hit Microsoft
Windows products

ISA Server 2000 and all versions of
Windows OS

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/423

Vista's EULA Product Activation Worries

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:6ZyBv1YKMasJ:www.camtp.uni-mb.si/opensource/GPL-EULA/comparing_the_gpl_to_eula.pdf+Problems+with+Microsoft+EULA&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us

In this analysis, we review both the
Microsoft EULA and the GPL used for most
Free/Open Source
Software. We particularly look at what
the similarities and differences are
between these two
licenses. We will also try and provide a
quantitative determination of what
positives both licenses
carry for you, the user, along what the
negatives are.

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2002/10/24.6.shtml

Microsoft EULA May Conflict With More
Federal Privacy Laws
http://boston.internet.com/news/article.php/1485861

Is Microsoft Licensing Forcing Banks to
Break The Law?

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/browse_thread/thread/a2f97f526cd51aa7/fd345b9bdf095551%23fd345b9bdf095551

Activation for used WinXP OEM, any
problems?


http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20061019/102225.shtml

A Random Walk Through The Microsoft
Vista EULA
0 Votes
+ -
(nt)
0 Votes
+ -
Thanks! (NT)
TechExec2 30th Jun 2007
.
0 Votes
+ -
10.0
John L. Ries 29th Jun 2007
Best satire I've read in at least a month. Now we know what Mike Cox has to do to get his users to allow their computers to be "upgraded", short of making his MSCEs work graveyard.
0 Votes
+ -
Thanks!
TechExec2 30th Jun 2007
Glad you enjoyed it!
down grade the customer to a previous OS, what does this say for Vista ???
0 Votes
+ -
The the Squeaky Wheel gets Greased
nucrash 28th Jun 2007
Out of all of the actual Vista users that I have met face to face. That would be one, he actually liked the OS. Another user also liked Vista. I tried the beta but never thought twice about it once I un-installed it.

Vista is not an ME2, more of a "Apple is clobbering us with the GUI and our security needs an overhaul, so let's fix it."

Funny how I was at MML last week and seemed to notice that one of the most popular apps installed was StarDock's ObjectDock. I find this funny because of how Windows XP starts to resemble Mac OS X.
0 Votes
+ -
Hmm...
fde101 28th Jun 2007
Let me take a stab at this:

99% of all "Windows" PCs... - what about the ones *not* being sold at "retail"; also, how many non-new-PC purchases compared to not...

78% of preloaded - this is a worthless data point within this context

21% fewer support calls - compared to how many fewer users? If Vista has even 50% of the users that XP does but has 79% of the support calls, I'd call this a bad thing... A much more interesting statistic would be support calls *per installed user (or computer)*...

Fewer security issues that need patching? Or just fewer issues discovered (so far) because of the smaller user base?

Device compatibility is high and getting higher? REALLY? I'd have thought it was getting LOWER.... Seriously... do they support the Apple ImageWriter yet?

happy
0 Votes
+ -
No, upgrade to XP from Vista
cyngaines 28th Jun 2007
I, for one, am glad not to be a Vista user. Yes, I have used it. Yes, it has some really neat features, but it's effectively a non-issue for me at work and at home. Windows XP does more than I need it to do, and if kept updated, is secure enough to handle all of my work. MS has totally screwed up with Vista: too many versions (confusing), high prices (making upgrading tough to justify), DRM from hell (when the average consumer knows he is getting screwed, you know there is something wrong), forced activation (no, not new, but worse now), NASA-level system resources necessary (in other words, buy a new PC), bad engineering (bloatware on steroids)

Nope, I think I'll stick with XP. When I can no longer do what I need to do with XP, I have options: buy a Mac or use Linux.
0 Votes
+ -
erg.
rtk 28th Jun 2007
1. XP has more versions than Vista, so that point is moot.

2. The high retail pricing reflects how few licenses are sold this way.

3. You've bought into the FUD, research DRM in Vista rather than blindly accepting what you've read from trolls. Start here:
http://msmvps.com/blogs/chrisl/archive/2007/01/25/519180.aspx

4. Activation isn't "worse" now.

"bad engineering", eh? You've no clue what you're talking about.
0 Votes
+ -
Wrong
cyngaines 29th Jun 2007
How long ago did you drink the colored beverage? Sad stuff.
0 Votes
+ -
That!?!
xuniL_z 29th Jun 2007
is your rebuttal?
0 Votes
+ -
Rebuttal to foolishness
Ole Man 29th Jun 2007
Is foolish.

Ergo, no rebuttal.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Microsoft to simplify downgrades from Vista to XP
makrekwe43-24353610246223524542078755276719 12th Nov
izdjyr,good post!

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix