Microsoft Windows 8 testers clamor for more interface customization (and may get some)

By | October 4, 2011, 8:10am PDT

Summary: Windows 8 testers and potential users aren’t completely sold on the new start screen (the Metro-style look and feel) of the coming version of Microsoft’s operating system. Some positive changes may be coming, however.

A new post on the Microsoft Building Windows 8 blog has triggered a debate among testers as to the extent Microsoft should and could allow customization of the Windows 8 interface.

The October 3 post, entitled “Evolving the Start Menu” — authored by Chaitanya Sareen, program manager lead on the Windows “Core Experience Evolved” team — spawned a number of comments about Microsoft’s decision to make the Windows Phone style Metro interface the default on Windows 8. The Windows 8 Start screen, which many users and testers consider to be the Metro shell/interface, is the primary UI for Windows 8. (Microsoft execs prefer to think of the screen as “the evolution of the Start Menu and associated functions,” according to Windows chief Steven Sinofsky.)

The new Windows 8 interface is the most noticeable change in the coming Windows operating system. And it has been a polarizing one: Those who’ve seen and tried it either love it or they don’t. Many of those who don’t have not found the UI to be cumbersome on non-touch PCs and tablets; in the developer preview, users need to use a less-than-optimal scroll bar to navigate with a mouse.

While a number of Microsoft watchers, including me, believe Microsoft is going to make relatively few user/tester-suggested changes to Windows 8 at this point in the development process, the October 3 blog post offers some hope that feedback isn’t totally falling on deaf ears.

“We are working to improve mouse scrolling in the Start screen. We’ll talk soon about a new way to scroll without having to use the scroll bar. Also, the scroll wheel is not working in the Developer Preview as we intend it to and we’ll be fixing this as well,” Sareen told readers in the comment section of the post. The new scrolling capability will be in the coming Beta of Windows 8, he said.

Sareen also said that there will be a way to close Metro-style apps without having to rely on the Windows 8 Task Manager — another common request from a variety of testers. While there will be a way, Sareen emphasized that “we also want to talk about why you probably won’t need to use it.” And it sounds like there possibly (though not definitely) may be changes coming in terms of multitasking. “Some of you have talked about it feeling less efficient to cycle through your recent programs compared to using the taskbar (and we’ll have more to say about that in future posts),” Sareen said.

The nearly 200 (as of 11 am ET on October 4) comments on Sareen’s post were of mixed opinions about the new Start experience in Windows 8, with more criticizing it than complimenting it. A couple of posters noted in the comments that they’re concerned that Microsoft’s insistence on the new touch-centric Start Screen as the default UI is going to end up like Microsoft’s decision to make the Ribbon interface the default for Office. While some users love the Ribbon UI, plenty hate it and cite it as a key reason they are unwilling to upgrade to more recent versions of Microsoft’s Office products. Office users can hide the Ribbon but they can’t go back to the pre-Ribbon UI days with Office 2007 or 2010.

With past releases of Windows and Office, Microsoft officials have defended the fact that Microsoft doesn’t provide multiple UI choices because it complicates its developer story. Should devs (both outside and inside Microsoft) create apps that assume a classic interface or a new UI like the Metro-style one (or both)? In the case of Windows 8, however, developers writing apps that are based on the new Windows Runtime, or WinRT) have that choice made for them: WinRT apps are Metro-style apps. Period. Developers who aren’t relying on WinRT seem to be able to choose whether they build Metro-style apps or more classic-style Desktop apps.

I’ve heard a couple of folks, including Windows Supersite’s Paul Thurrott, note that Microsoft is going to allow business users to tailor what will appear on the Windows 8 Start Screen using Group Policy settings. Will this mean IT admins can configure Windows 8 so that their users never see the Metro interface and go straight to the Desktop app, which has more of a traditional Windows UI feel? I haven’t been able to find any written references to this in the Build slides or Microsoft’s blog posts, however. (Anyone else?) If this is, indeed, going to be an option, the Windows team could save itself a lot of angry comments if it made this coming option “official.”

As I’ve written before, I like the new Windows 8 Metro interface, but I’m still a skeptic regarding its suitability outside the realm of touch tablets. Even after Build, I’m still not sold on Metro as the default on my PC; I’d prefer a choice.

Do you think Windows 8 users should get more UI customization? (And will they?)

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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gyxnieh 94 snm
cmakrekwe50-24379030934799361616661660239752 23rd Nov
excsxf,eudkafet89, sakhs.
I will be skipping windows 8 and all future version unless I can disable metro completely. I am not talking hacking either.

Metro UI is totally useless for a non touch device. The PC is dead why because Microsoft says so? Zdnet and all the tech blogs brought that line.
@Randalllind

+1,000,000

Windows 8 is such a waste of time. I see zero reason to upgrade and plenty of reasons not to.
@Randalllind: It's bought, not brought!
@Randalllind Did Microsoft say the PC was dead? Wow. Are you sure you don't mean Apple refering to the "Post-PC era"? At 450M copies of Windows 7 sold, I'd be somewhat surprised if Microsoft thought the PC dead.
@spc1972

Half a billion copies sold in less than 2 years, and the PC is dead, 30 million iPads shipped in almost the same time, and it's considered a major success. I just wonder who actually starts this crap. I'm a little tired of poor journalism. That's less than 7% of all the PC's that shipped with Windows 7. Windows 7 sees a 1% decline over a 3 month period, and all the tech journalist start reporting that Windows is dying now.. and it's ALL because of the iPad.
@Randalllind

-1 happy I can't fathom why anyone prefers the old icon bin of Widows 95's desktop over the live desktop of Windows 8. Perhaps they've passed judgement on Metro based entirely on the Dev Preview. Believe it or not, the new Start Screen will get better over time just like anything else in tech, even before Windows 8's release. In the meantime, we're promised a desktop that is actually useful instead of a static background image. Very cool!
@MLHACK - To you and charlesdjones1: Windows is more than 25 years old. iPad is one and a half year old. Windwos has a strong base. Those numbers aren't surprising (half a billion). But the numbers for iPad surely are. It seems, lately, that the momentum is less on Windows side. I'm not saying that iPad will surpass Windows, at least not in the near future, or that Windows is absolutely fading away but, I wish your comparison would take historical perspectives into account.

iPad is not just a blimp. But, I hear it's eating away at Microsoft's lunch.

We'll see!
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"Complicates their developer story"?

They've got their priorities backwards. Who cares how "complicated" it gets for MS dev management? (That's who they're talking about).

I thought the **customer story** was the driving force. Silly me.
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New Vista moment!
andy.james@... 4th Oct
On a non-slate machine the Metro bar gets a huge thumbs down. For heavens sake Microsoft have sense and let the user decide - as a non-techie put it to me "I don't want a cartoon interface on my PC". Lets not have another Vista moment!!!
@andy.james@...
If they had enhanced that crappy taskbar and learned so much from OS X, it would be worth the upgrade but that's not the case. Am not upgrading either cause I see no reason to upgrade. I smell Vista too
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Really??
hoytler 4th Oct
Seriously: If you can't read between the lines of some of the "Build Windows 8" blog psots, then you're just about as daft as the commenters on that blog: Obviously, very obviously, the Metro UI will be configurable via GPO and will be allowed to be disabled.

Kinda of like the Vista Start Menu and the "Classic" start menu. Right? Sound familar?

And isn't that option nothing but a Registry change? Kind of like the utility that has already been developed for Windows 8 to enable the classic start menu by default:

http://www.ghacks.net/2011/09/15/windows-8-start-menu-toggle-disable-enable-metro-ui/

And if you look at that article - brace yourself - It's nothing but a simple registry change.

So now let's put that into the bigger picture:

If you take into account corporate deployment scenarios like VDI, kiosk environments, or just general corporate desktop standards that are relied on by most companies, we all know that MS cannot change the OS to remove itself from these use cases.

The speculation surrounding this topic and even the insinuations from MJ in this article are complete FUD.

Lesson to be learned: Don't get your ******* in a bunch over a half-baked Dev preview, kids!

See you at the Beta.
@hoytler - I couldn't agree more. The purpose of the Windows 8 Developer Preview is to get developers learning WinRT & XAML, (oops, forgot to mention HTML5/JS... actually I didn't) and building Metro-style apps so that when Windows 8 does launch there will be a significant number of applications ready for sale via the Store thus increasing the viability of a Windows 8 tablet purchase over obvious rivals. I think too many people are reading too much into the new Start experience. I'm sure it will be configurable but I'm equally sure that it will be the default unless turned off and that the whole usability will drastically improve between now, Beta, RC & release.
@hoytler

Sure, tech-inclined folks will figure it out...but what about THE PEOPLE THAT THIS SIMPLISTIC UI IS TARGETING?

If those people aren't flocking to WP7, doesn't that tell you something? Anything?

Geez, you could hit Microsoft fanbois in the head with a rock, and they'd still insist everything's fine.
If those people aren't flocking to WP7, doesn't that tell you something? Anything?

@gork platter
Yeah strange, isn't it? They made a half-way usable OS and they're still not flocking.

But I expect their shills to come around shortly and make excuses for that. You can count on it. wink
Yes! The Metro interface is brilliant but doesn't seem efficient for non-touchscreens. You need to be able to navigate the entire interface with a mouse and onscreen elements.

Rolling-over invisible hotspots in the corner of the screen and keyboard+mouse shortcuts will not work for the average user.
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@uberlaff It is a UI for toddlers. It is more appropriate for the LeapFrog platform.
@uberlaff The rolling-over invisible hotspots is a clumsy implementation designed to force all users of the Developer Preview to use the Start menu in this build (with all its faults). You can tell by the way the black border has been haphazardly placed over the old Start menu that it is a temporary measure.

As I've posted above, this build of Windows 8 has not been provided for a complete assessment of the new start screen rather a platform to get developers to build Metro apps.

I absolutely agree that the current build has challenges for non-touchscreens but I think this is far, far, far from being the finished product.
@spc1972 - I've been experimenting with Windows 8 under Paralles on my iMac (very recent generation). It is clumsy but this doesn't bother me that much. It is a work in progress. But, I can see some elements that will stay and that bothers me.

When I look at my iPad and see the dozens of small icons in the UI, I cannot imagine how a Windows 8 tablet will look with all the business card sized text icons and how it will allow me to navigate in that OS.

I do agree with @uberlaff. It is a UI for toddlers.

And I have a question that still needs resolved _ how will all this work properly with ARM cpus?
The Metro UI is great on a phone (love my phone) or a tablet but if you don't have a touch interface then its absolutely horrible. If Microsoft is gonna get it right they need to let the user be able to turn it on or off and by default it should be off unless a touch screen device driver is found. If there is no touch enabled then turn it off because it makes using Windows a horrible experience and I've been using Windows since 3.11. If they can't make Windows smart enough to make the determination based on touch availability and I don't have the option to switch between the interfaces then I would just turn Metro off permanently.
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What is the problem?
reidar76 Updated - 4th Oct
I find it hard to understand why people are so against the new start screen. In Windows 7 you click on the Windows logo in the lower left corner and get a list of installed programs that you click on to start a program. In Windows 8 do exactly the same thing! The only difference is that the start menu in Windows 8 now covers the entire screen, and icons are slightly larger and shows more information about the program. This is really a very small change in the user interaction model...

When people say they do not want to use Windows 8 because of the new start screen, I have to laugh a little. Seriously, it's just a larger Start menu.

I believe that we will have laptops (and desktops) with touch screens as standard next year. I think that the design of Windows 8 logo will only be available for computers with a touch screen.

I definitly would like a new laptop with a touch screen instead of a trackpad or stick. What about you?
@reidar76
Because Microsoft made it. Any opportunity to bash Microsoft will be beaten to death.
Translation:

whaaaa mommy....mommy...they made fun of my temple of an OS again...whaaaa....

grin
On an itty, bitty phone, maybe. On an 8 x 10 pad possibly. But on double 22+ inch screens approximately 6 inches above my desK? Are you kidding me?

I really don't like to move my hands that much. I even tend to use keyboard shortcuts, and my mouse is a ball style.

I'm afraid Metro is headed the way of MS Bob, and if MS doesn't get it, then probably the whole company will follow Bob down the crapper in short order.
@Takalok

We use smartboards at the office today that is 70" plus. Tabletops is another innovation that will come into more widespread use as time goes by.

I think situations were each of us sitting alone in front of our computer will be reduced with time. More collaboration and interaction.
@Takalok Those still aren't desktop scenarios. If you're working with a keyboard, you will still want the GUI controls near the keyboard.
@reidar76
gorilla arm: n.
The side-effect that destroyed touch-screens as a mainstream input technology despite a promising start in the early 1980s. It seems the designers of all those spiffy touch-menu systems failed to notice that humans aren't designed to hold their arms in front of their faces making small motions.
http://catb.org/jargon/html/G/gorilla-arm.html

Here we go again !!
@Zogg

Touch screens from the 1980s is quite different from new touch screens. Most computers sold today are notebooks, where you can touch the screen while your hands rest on your computer (with the right design).

In a work context, we use today in more and more situations smartboards and tabletops for example at meetings and seminars etc.

I also believe that desktop computers will have touch screens, although this is likely to take longer to come into widespread use. The screen will probably be almost lying flat on the desk (with handrests possibilities), which has only been possible to do after we all got flat screens. HP recently announced that they were to redesign the base to its touch screens to allow this.

Do not forget that the Kinect sensor may also be appropriate to use in a desktop context. We do not know what Microsoft plans for the future, but I guess that the Metro user interface will play a key part of it all.
@reidar76
"Touch screens from the 1980s is quite different from new touch screens."

I'm talking about screens mounted vertically on your desk, not notebooks or tablets. It's the positioning that causes "gorilla arm", not the technology used to implement it.

"I also believe that desktop computers will have touch screens ... The screen will probably be almost lying flat on the desk (with handrests possibilities)..."

More hardware which doesn't exist yet. So you're basically saying that Windows 8 will be completely impractical on the desktop without a complete hardware upgrade.
@Zogg

I think that Windows 8 will lead to a significant increase in hardware sales, just what the industry needs. New displays, new all-in-one desktops, new notebooks and tablets of course. All with touch screens, even if we will continue to use the mouse on the desktop when it is more convenient.

Microsoft will get good support from their hardware partners, which needs increased sales. Windows 8 pre-installed on all new computers. The "designed for Windows 8 logo" will require touch screens is my guess...
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Yikes! I hope not!
Zogg 5th Oct
@reidar76
"I think that Windows 8 will lead to a significant increase in hardware sales, just what the industry needs."

Seriously, no ! It that's the future then people simply won't upgrade to Win8. It sounds ridiculously too expensive! I certainly have zero intention of throwing all of my existing hardware out!
@reidar76

Nice sales spin, but you didn't address the issue of gorilla arm. Instead, you're too dazzled by the big stupid squares on a green background.

Try using some common sense for once instead of sounding like a sales brochure.
Microsoft should give an option of customizing the UI perhaps via the add/remove windows feature option.If it does not then it would be another Apple in the making which just pushes down features down our throats..
I like the Metro UI for accessing Metro apps, but as a replacement for the start menu to access desktop apps it's horrible. And for at least the next few years we'll all have more desktop apps we use regularly than metro apps. Jumping out of desktop to use the start search field just to get back to desktop is a jarring and needlessly complex process. Give us a start menu search field on the desktop at least.
I'm not worried about Microsoft changing things. When Apple change things, they simply say "it's better because we say it's better" and that's that. Microsoft is using facts and figures to back up their reasons behind these changes and they're being fairly transparent about those facts and figures & I like that. I trust them to get it all right.
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@andrewtechhelp@...
"If you try to make everyone happy, noone will be happy."
Seems like Microsoft is trying to make everyone happy with two different UIs. Might not work out too well.
I like the Metro style interface. I wonder if it will cover both monitors in a dual screen setup? The option to disable the interface on startup must be an option, however.
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Business Use
NedVargar 4th Oct
Looking at Metro from a practical point of view it won't fly in many business scenarios. An example would be in a call center. The user has records open in the traditional windows environment and needs to use the start menu to open other programs to assist a customer. How productive will it be to flip-flop back and forth between a Metro screen? What if they need to reference a programs output in order to determine what to open in Start? The only alternative business will have is to add the Start Menu programs to the Desktop. Hardly ideal.
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I agree - to a point
thx-1138_@... Updated - 5th Oct
@NedVargar .. but bear in mind Redmond already, and openly, acknowledges most of their business / enterprise customers will likely be staying with W7.

W7 will likely become the proverbial, next XP to business / enterprise / edu's. The life-cycle for an enterprise level OS like W7 means that will likely be for a number of years.

The upshot of that is, by the time W7 gets long in the tooth, W8's new UI will have become the accepted norm (..as unlikely as that sounds to many at this point in time). Which, in turn, likely means W8 would have evolved via, say ... W9 (..or even "WX" [W10]) - and, by that time, any issues with touch-centric usage for business tasks would have been long resolved and a distant memory.

So, in essence, W8 is likely to gain most traction with the general public (mid-term): while W7 will likely take precedence (as i've already mentioned) with bus' / ent' / edu's.

" Hardly ideal."

Actually, you're right ... it actually makes W8's arrival, perfectly ideal.
I'm sorry, but I do NOT want a tiled, Windows Phone like interface. I like my Start Menu, and I will NOT buy Windows 8 until Microsoft gets their head straight. I guess it takes another failure for them to learn.
@Techie103 I'm pretty sure by the time the product ships you'll have what you want. For now, why not build some Metro apps using WinRT & XAML or even HTML/JS to see how your work will run on the new platform.
I love Metro (generally) but I don't like the colored background behind the tiles. This goes a long way towards making it look somewhat "cartoonish". Change the background to black or something less garish than what they're currently using, add more text elements, and all of a sudden it looks splendid even on a desktop. Here's an example of Metro on the desktop done right:
http://fediafedia.deviantart.com/art/Omnimo-4-1-for-Rainmeter-158707137
@CodeChemist Beautiful! Thanks for the link- I've been using Win 8 on my "spare" computer and would love to see this on Win 8!
I think defaulting to the Metro interface with their business apps launching from there will be very beneficial to the average office computer user. Business' are app-centric for the most part. Where those apps launch from are of very little importance to these types of users.
After spending sometimes, with the Windows Developper Preview, i can say that Microsoft make a significant error when they chose to enable everyone to download and test an unfinished product.

Because it was unavoidable that there would be a ton of negative reaction based on flawed perception and/or comprehension issues.
This is a developper preview, not a product ready to be tried by end users. This is what beta is for.
Now, thanks to these flawed impressions, Windows 8 is getting more bad press then it deserves.

Regarding the start screen, sure it needs some work, sure the green color backgroung is ugly, but come on. It is far to be that hard to use and it is far to be useless on desktop/laptop. It just needs some tuning to be quite usable on desktop. I use it on a laptop and i have no serious issue at all with it even when i use the touchpad.
Overall, i like this developper preview as much or even more than Windows 7 as it is faster and more reactive.
I just wish, the start screen was more customizable and that it was possible to launch several instances of the desktop to have some kind of virtual desktops out of the box.
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TouchPad?
pedro_mann@... Updated - 4th Oct
I apologize if this comment is in context becuase I have not been able to run the developer preview because the install keeps crashing in virtual box, but I keep wondering if a touchpad will be compatible? That will make it ok for most laptops that have a multi-touch capable touchpad. As well as allow third parties to popularize add on usb touch pads, or build them into desktop keyboards. I know it would not allow a user to interact with an app in the same way as a touch screen, but it would allow easy navigation and gestures etc. I think this would be a key ommission if their metro ui is going to be successful. Many users will cite arthritus, shoulder problems, not wanting to clean their screens daily etc as complaints. Just as 3D has a main complaint of people who already wear glasses can't use 3D glasses well. I hope MS reads this and takes touchpads into account, very seriously.
I really don't understand all the negativity about the Metro UI for mouse and keyboard users. I have all my programs pinned to the Metro UI and in the order I want them in, so when I click on Start, there they all are and just a mouse-click away. Scrolling on the Metro UI with the scroll wheel is great. It does need improvement when opening the Apps though. But other than that, I like it a lot. I'm not what you would consider a "power user" so maybe that's the difference.
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I have seen two messages vanish from this board now; neither seemed to warrant deletion for any reason.

ZD-Net: Has your moderator become "trigger happy", or has this message board system discovered yet another way to be annoying?
@Zogg

If you can only count two, that's not bad at all.
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gyxnieh 94 snm
cmakrekwe50-24379030934799361616661660239752 23rd Nov
excsxf,eudkafet89, sakhs.

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