Might Microsoft's Midori be 'Cairo' revisited?

By | July 7, 2008, 4:00am PDT

Summary: My post a week ago about Microsoft’s post-Windows operating system, code-named “Midori,” elicited some interesting responses — and a few potential new clues.

My post  about Microsoft’s post-Windows operating system, code-named “Midori,” elicited some interesting responses — and a few potential new clues over the past week.

Might Microsoft's Midori be 'Cairo' revisited?To those of you who sent me notes speculating/wondering whether Microsoft’s Midori might be a derivative of the Midori Linux effort and/or the Midori lightweight Web browser project, I’ll reiterate that I don’t believe these other Midori projects have anything to do with Microsoft’s Midori.

Microsoft’s Midori — from what little I’ve been able to glean about it — is a next-generation Microsoft operating system that is currently in “incubation” — meaning that it’s likely to be launched sooner than a typical Microsoft Research project, but not so soon as to obviate the need for Windows 7 and Windows 8. In other words, we’re looking at a new non-Windows operating system to debut some time before CEO Steve Ballmer retires (a date Ballmer has said is nine or so years away), but not before late 2009/early 2010 (the target date for Windows 7).

As I noted last week, my sources have said that Midori has something to do with “Singularity,” the Microsoft Research effort to develop a non-Windows-based operating system from scratch. Midori is the realization that Windows as it exists today isn’t the be-all/end-all. Microsoft isn’t going to continue to deliver updates to its flagship product without thinking ahead as to what might come next.

(For another view on Microsoft’s OS plans, see Ed Bott’s “Why you’ll have a long wait for Microsoft’s next OS.”

Since I posted my initial blog entry on Midori, I’ve received a few additional (and unconfirmed) tips. One that was especially intriguing: Midori is another attempt by Microsoft to deliver on “Cairo,” Microsoft’s distributed, object-oriented operating system that never saw the light of day.

Think this through, the tipster told me. Eric Rudder, the head of the Midori project, is a “Bill Guy,” not a “Steve” Guy. If you look at Gates’ pet projects that were left unrequited but are still much loved by Microsoft’s Chairman, Cairo has to be high-up on that list.  (Remember Gates’ “information at your fingertips” vision? That’s what Cairo — and more recently, the ill-fated WinFS, were all about.) Who better than Rudder to attempt to realize Gates’ vision of a truly object-oriented, distributed operating system, the tipster argued?

Will Cairo make a comeback? Not surprisingly, Microsoft isn’t commenting. But whether Midori is or isn’t Cairo minus the Egyptian codename, it is key to Microsoft’s future.

As Apple and other operating-system developers have learned over the years, you can only patch a war-horse for so long. At some point, you need to start fresh. That said, phasing out support for a 1-billion-Windows-PC-strong user base is not a project Microsoft will take lightly. As company watchers know — despite its well-documented compatibility challenges with Windows XP and Windows Vista — Microsoft isn’t a company that underestimates the importance of app compat.

Microsoft has to be thinking long-term about what kind of operating system will supersede Windows.  I, for one, won’t be surprised if Midori still ends up looking more like Windows than not.

What’s your bet? What will Midori look like?

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Topics

Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Might Microsoft's Midori be 'Cairo' revisited?
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If it is object oriented -
chrome_slinky@... 7th Jul 2008
it would work like OS/2, the versions after Microsoft and IBM stopped working together.

The Workplace Shell was the best environment I've ever worked on.
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Hail Mary, Full Of FUD
itanalyst2@... 7th Jul 2008
The Ballmer is with thee...blessed is the FUD of thy womb, blessed is the FUD of our Lord Ballmer amen.
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You'd better like barbeque
croberts 7th Jul 2008
You might be burning in hell eating spicy chicken wings for that little abomination of a prayer.
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Holy charcoal, Batman!
The Daleks 7th Jul 2008
Pat Robertson, James Dobson and Mike Huckabee just issued a fatwa against itanalyst2. Any devout techie who meets him is commanded to use the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch. Either that, or load Office 2007 on his machine, which is even worse.
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RE: Holy charcoal, Batman!
richdave 7th Jul 2008
Our group, Pastafarions of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster would have issues with that.
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Hail Mary, Full Of FUD
aussieblnd@... 7th Jul 2008
8.9 that was pretty cute!
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Toward that end I would recommend you look up the meaning of the word "Midori" in Japanese...

Explains everything. happy
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and there's Planet Midori
bcarpent1228@... 7th Jul 2008
Better than the Japanese midori is Planet Midori - finally an operating system on the good things in life happy happy happy


Planet Midori
About Midori

An educator and columnist on adventurous sexuality, she's also the author of "The Seductive Art of Japanese Bondage", "Master Han's Daughter" and "Wild Side Sex: The Book of Kink"

She's known for her humanistic, humorous and warm classes that help people to spice up their sex lives ...
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While that might be fun...
wolf_z 7th Jul 2008
...it's hardly safe for work. Cough.

To head off the inevitable, the word "midori" in japanese means "green".

So there. happy

A green OS?
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In other words
Yagotta B. Kidding 7th Jul 2008
You're talking about Microsoft's version of Plan 9
I build, implement and maintain 1000's of PCs, and many many exchange, IIS, FTP, database, SBS, file servers etc.

Today I'm picking up a macboook for myself. Not because I'm jumping from XP to OSX but because I have to improve my OSX skills. More and more of my customers have become disillusioned with MS after the whole Vista fiasco. Some were willing to tough it out till SP1 but in the end after SP1 - all have gone back to XP. No "fixes" were ever released - just patches to improve performance - nothing ever "fixed" the crappy performance of Vista - only helped reduce the suckiness.

I liken Vista to s steaming pile of dog poo. Vista with SP1 - is that steaming pile of dog poo with icing and sprinkles on top. I'm still not tempted by it even with the sprinkles on top.

The IT groups I build the exchange 2007 servers for are very dissappointed MS never bothered to finish the exchange management console to do with the ease of a mouse click what previous versions of exchange did in the GUI. Now you have to know the special incantations of lengthy commands in a DOS prompt MS calls a "powershell" - so much sexier than calling it the DOS prompt. SP1 for exchange was supposed to put many of those functions back into the GUI - but as MS seems to like to do these days - never complete a project they begin - WINFS is a classic example of that.

MS seems to be all over the place with ideas - but with very little follow through. I suggest they need some new management and seriously new leadership.
Your professionalism is obviously quite in question immediately.


But what if I told you Vista is 43% faster than XP? Woudl you be interested? I suppose not.


And please list the "fixes" you are looking for and your "performance" issues. Vista flies for me on a 6 month old 1400.00 PC.

I don't need to spend 3000.00 or above, as you do with Leopard, to get close to instantaneous responsiveness.


What if i told you Vist has delivered everything the majority of anti-ms people have complained and whined about for seven years?

Would you listen? I doubt it. It''s a steaming pile of dog poo to you no matter what the reality.
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LOL - 43% faster
boed 7th Jul 2008
I wouldn't be interested because I've actually taken the time to do benchmarks - of ALL functions of VISTA - not just one item. And I took the time to do it on identical equipment of various models. I compared P4 2.4 GHZ models, P4 3GHz models, Core 2 2.4 GHZ models - tested 32 bit and 64 bit. And even on NEW equipment with 2 or more gigs of memory for most functions Vista is not a viable solution. I tested file copies - large, small, groups, I tested video editing, application opening and closing, boot ups, shut downs, and yes - I work for two gaming companies so I even tested gaming - can you enlighten us on your in depth testing - how many machines and of what type. Can you explain how you averaged a 43% improvement over the variety of IT functions used on your PC? Or are you comparing a single function comaparing your new Core 2 system with 2 gigs and a clean install of Vista to your 5 year old windows machine with 256 meg of memory on Pentium 2 that hasn't been reformatted in 5 years?

You have one PC - and Vista works great for you - congrats- I support companies of 20,000 employees to small companies with only a few dozen or so PCs. I currently don't support companies of 1 employee who only use notepad - but I'll contact you for advice as soon as that is my cash cow client.

I guess the people at Intel 80,000 employees who decided Vista wasn't a good solution probably don't know much about technology either - good thing you are hear to clear up that error in judgement.
Specifically:

"But what if I told you Vista is 43% faster than XP?"

So s/he isn't claiming that Vista is 43% faster at all, and is therefore free to pull this figure out of his/her imagination.
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Check out
xuniL_z 7th Jul 2008
Vista's various copy and other speeds on Server 2008 vs XPSP2. I didn't pull the 43% out of the blue, it can be easily found.


try the search phrase Vista 43% faster than XP on Server 2008



wink



And check out how much faster server 2K8 is over 2k3. I think, along with Hyper-V, it will make server 2008 one of MS's fastest selling server OSes, and it will bring Vista with it since it shares the kernel to some degree and Vista has more support for 2k8 than XP.



happy
Surely not.

Microsoft sells Server 2008 as a distinct product to Vista, so it sounds like you and boed are talking about different things. Not least because boed has actually done some analysis while you're just talking in marketing sound-bites.
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You've got to be kidding Zogg.....
xuniL_z 7th Jul 2008
No "fixes" were ever released - just patches to improve performance - nothing ever "fixed" the crappy performance of Vista - only helped reduce the suckiness.

I liken Vista to s steaming pile of dog poo. Vista with SP1 - is that steaming pile of dog poo with icing and sprinkles on top. I'm still not tempted by it even with the sprinkles on top.



That is the mind of an objective analyst in your mind?

And did you check out his "analysis"? Apache is trending downward. It jumped the shark Zogg. Look at netcraft, since he stands behind it. You'll see IIS is trending upward. It's the new kid on the block of the web server world. That was dominated by Unix for years. Linux was the logical jump from Unix. Apache had a huge running start. For IIS and Windows to break into that "good 'ol boys" club is amazing. You see, it does not involve any "lock in" on the client. It did involve showing perenial Unix gurus that Windows is a hell of lot easier to run and administration is like a dream compared to *X.


As for the marketing "bytes" comment, the link i posted to boed has data from benchmarking.

If you look around the web, you'll find many non biased reviews of Vista on 2k8. And why shouldn't it be faster on 2k8? It shares basically the same kernel and support for things XP does not.


My point was that Vista can be faster than XP, it depends on what environment you are talking about.

I could have said DOS was faster than win95, when it came out, on the same hardware, and it surely was, but the move forward with the GUI and multitasking and so much more obviously outweighed that fact.


All i'm saying is that maybe XP is faster than Vista on the same hardware, but like my previous example, what does that mean? The fastest car is the best car? Is that it? Speed is suddenly the overall deciding factor?


of course not. I have personal experience with Unix(10 years programming and performing system admin), Polyforth(helped program much of a derivative from Polyforth for healthcare system), Windows (4.0 thru server 2k8), Novell netware, MUMPs and some Linux based stuff. I feel i have a handle on the big picture when it comes to building a system. I started in the 90s and have moved to basically advising admin and dept mgrs. and working with their IT on major projects. I'm no longer providing just IT grunt work support and i don't have time to give a full analysis on each talkback. I'm not a braggard, but on here it seems whoever is most current on current events and trivial facts, or someone who can blurt out "netcraft" stats and make some aging and no longer valid points about Apache and IIS 7.0 makes them somekind of analyst.


My ONLY point was that indeed Vista is 43% faster than XP when you benchmark then in a server 2008 environment. Is that not a valid observation to make? I think the uptake on server 2008 will be greater than normal for a variety of reasons. (marketing bytes to you).
hyper-V. Want a rundown of how it works? It's downsides and upsides? Bottom line is it's very robust and even open source bloggers have given it high marks. Teh speed. The benchmarking of server 2k3 vs. 2k8 shouls the latter is significantly faster. That will be a major factor influencing the decision to upgrade.

A significantly faster network is a huge deal for most folks that I know.


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LMAO@xuniL_Z
storm14k 7th Jul 2008
The only "trend" at netcraft was that of GoDaddy switching millions of parked domains to Windows machines. IIS is still a joke web server and Windows is still a joke server period.

You must have been counting on selling some 2008 servers to pay the bills. Now you see its still a joke so you rant about how "great" it is when it wasn't even the subject of discussion. Maybe when they implement more of the *nix features that they are trending towards it will be a worthwhile server solution. But why bother with that wanna be when you can have the real thing for free.
Boed was talking about Vista (client), and there is evidence to suggest that these two products are significantly different, Microsoft's claim that they spring from the same code-base notwithstanding:

http://exo-blog.blogspot.com/2008/03/windows-2008-vista-done-right.html

So by all means, sing the praises of Server 2008 if you like. But that doesn't make what boed is saying about Vista wrong.

"That is the mind of an objective analyst in your mind?"

S/he's anonymous, you're anonymous, but boed is a newcomer here (AFAIK) and so I afford him/her a basic credibility which s/he is (of course) free to erode. His/her basic message is sufficiently "First Person" that it does at least read like personal experience.

"And did you check out his "analysis"?"

As I recall, boed didn't provide a link to his/her results, but described what s/he had done in this post:

http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12558-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=49417&messageID=925007&start=-9965

"I've actually taken the time to do benchmarks - of ALL functions of VISTA - not just one item."

So s/he is talking about benchmarking, but you are talking about Netcraft (e.g. you say "Look at netcraft, since he stands behind it.") So now you're two apples for boed's two oranges!

"As for the marketing "bytes" comment, the link i posted to boed has data from benchmarking."

I distinctly said "marketing sound-bites": if you're going to claim to quote me then please do so correctly. Failing to do so erodes your credibility.
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Storm14 you are so full of it.
xuniL_z 10th Jul 2008
You avoided all facts. The very site you listed that would make me "see the reality" or whatever. Well if you didn't lie and looked at the graphs on your own link, you would see Apache jumped the shark sometime ago and is trending downward. I didn't create that chart, your friends at netcraft did. You will see IIS is trending upward.


your name calling and trashing MS products out of hand shows nothing but your ignorance of technology and a clear bias. Nothing more.


Another thing you seem to be getting backwards is that since 1991, Linux and the various systems using that kernel have been desperately trying to catch up with Windows. That is obvious. Even die hard aBMers come out and admit that now and again.

Take Samba, for instance. That is just windows reverse engineered, or a large part of it. Jeremy Allison isn't hiding that fact.

The SMB implementation is from Windows at the very least.


And I hate to tell you this but i've been writing Scripts on windows domains since NT 4.0. Powershell is more than you obviously know, since you are equating it to the Linux CLI. Pfft!! Most Linux loonies like you are trying to say they never have to touch the CLI to run a linux shop. That is from Linux User 123456 (don't know the number exactly).


You Linux Lusers are all the same. Braggadocio is all you have.


Windows and Vista has it all over Linux. That is why one distro came out with "Vixta". It's an attempt by a linux distro to look and feel like Vista, however it is a pathetic failure.


And you know Ubuntu is still not nearly as user friendly and has no where near the driver support as Windows. Nor the game support.


Keep on trying dude, but so far all you can do is a bit of name calling and saying IIS is trash, even as it's heading to overtake Apache....It's going to put the Ax to Apache and "scalp" it. HA HA HA HA
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Zogg.
xuniL_z 10th Jul 2008
Your link from him is worthless. I could claim the same. He gives no testing procedure, methods, algorithms, results...nothing. After all that work, you'd think he'd post his findings, eh?


It's easy to say what he did, but i have worked with systems since the early 90s from Unix to Windows with novell in the mix and do have experience to work from. I have 2 sites running around 20 Vista machines at each site w/o a problem on a server 2k3 domain in each case.


Yes, XP is faster than Vista on a standalone machine or on a 2k3 network. Of course it is....it's a smaller and older OS. DOS is faster than XP but I don't hear you saying we should still be using DOS?


Vista has many advantages and I love it. I've been using w/o an issue since early this year and it's more stable and more of pleasure to use than XP. It supports .net 3.5 and I love the VS 2008 toolset. Vista is a great development platform. Give it time and you'll love it too.


I only mentioned server 2008 cause he was talking about all of the benchmarking.


I have done no benchmarking personally, I doubt he has either, but i give a link to those at computerworld that HAVE to show you Vista can be faster when it's paired with the right server. WAs it off topic, yes, but it was simply to show to him that it's all RELATIVE.
that i could say Vista is 43% faster and it be true. Which as i showed from their benchmarking, Vista is much faster on server 2k8 than XP. Somehow you both read it that i was suggesting to buy server 2k8 as your clients. Ummm, no. Just making a point that everything is relative. SErver 2008 is taking off fast. Soon you will see why Vista is the OS that will replace XP hands down.


I knew it all along, ever since I fired up my new machine and it booted up all the way, all services running, the hard disk dead quiet, in 15 seconds. Shutdown is 11 seconds. I've never seen XP boot or shutdown THAT fast.


I've loaded all of my MSDN apps and all apps i've written since .net 1.0 and they all run great.


Any incompatible apps or hardware, i just run them using XP(SP2) compatibility and they work great.
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Vista is not Server 2008
boed 8th Jul 2008
I'm talking about Vista not server 2008. Although heavily based upon the Vista SP1 code, they are not the same creature. If you look at other articles by Mary Jo, you'll see I've commented that Vista didn't have to suck but it does. I comment on the performance of Windows 2008 being significantly better than Vista. There are many theories on why 2008 is so much faster than Vista - some say it is because 2008 doesn't have the DRM baked in that Vista does.

I don't know for sure but I do agree that 2008 is Much MUCH faster than Vista. However I can't justify rolling out a $700 OS to 20,000 desktops.

MS isn't offering 2008 as an alternative desktop OS to anyone who wasted money buying Vista - there is no one for one exchange program for Vista to 2008.

2008 is a perfectly acceptable server and desktop OS however the price of running it as a desktop OS is prohibitive. The performance hit for running Vista as a desktop OS is prohibitive.

You'll also find there are a few apps that don't run on 2008 desktop OS that do run on Vista - if you search for articles on 2008 as a desktop OS, you'll find some of my posts about what does and doesn't run - oddly they are mostly MS apps that don't work in 2008 happy
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You still missed my point.
xuniL_z 10th Jul 2008
I didn't say you should rollout server2k8 on your desktops. I wasn't even commmenting on your desktops.


I will though, RAM is cheap. You can get the more expensive laptops, a 17" laptop, 2.5Ghz penryn core 2 duo, 7200rpm drives (dual 160s), 4GB of 800Mhz RAM..the whole nine yards for around 1K now. I paid 1400.00 for just that in January, but you don't need the built-in camera, r/w CD/DVD combo on all of your machines etc.

I would get either HP or Dell desktops at aorund 1K, put in 4GB of RAM and run Vista x64 if possible. Vista x64 screams on that config. Instantaneous screens. XP can't be faster, nor linux than instantaneous. Someone, was it you, said if i had 4GB of RAM and fast machine i would not waste it on Vista. What else would you use a machine like that for? Linux, as the ABMers say, will fly on a 10 year old PC with 64MB of RAM, so it's overkill there.....what else is there? Can't run OS X on a PC.

ANYWAY...my statement that VISTA runs 43% faster on a server 2008 network than XP does on a server 2008 network was simply showing you there IS a platform where Vista is faster than XP in file copies and such. Up to 75% faster than XP in some cases.


I wasn't saying to get server 2008 for your clients, only that my statement that Vista can be 43% faster is true, on the right network.


Afterall, AKH's endless benchmarks of network copies etc. were all done on a 2k3 domain and that whole series of blogs was to show XP is still faster. I say use server 2k8 and do them over again AKH.


YOu should replace your servers with 2k8 though....you'll have a much faster network and your Vista clients will fly when doing network chores.
Call me crazy but don't you think that if Vista was faster than XP - MS would use that as a selling feature of Vista? MS has been pounded by the press and the IT community about how slow Vista is. Do you think MS is just laughing and saying we know something they don't know?

If Vista was faster - why do they need to keep selling XP for sytems that don't meet the power requirements of Vista?

If you are going to claim as long as you have a core 2 processor and 4 gigs of memory Vista is faster - riddle me this batman-

I have a hemi truck 420 HP and a chevy citation both with trailer hitches. I have a 2 ton boat to tow. Obviously the hemi can haul that boat easier than the citation. If I unhitch the trailer from the truck - will it go faster or slower? So try and make this jump in imagination - if the citation can pull XP no problem but has a problem with the boat (vista) won't the truck run faster with XP and not hauling Vista?
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/142707-3/first_look_windows_server_2008.html



Here's just the one line. (you'll find this same finding all over the internet, if you cared to look)


Vista can be as much as 43% faster than Windows XP SP2 in copying operations and 18% faster in opening concurrent streams.



Now read on to VISTA'S ROLE section of above link's story.

Check out the speed comparisons between server 2008 and server 2003 and Vista vs XPSP2. In one case Vista copied folders around 73% faster!



Some people look ahead. Server 2008's uptake is brisk. The world is changing around Windows yet again. Since you are already used to it....it shouldn't come as a surprise. wink
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faster?
X41 13th Jul 2008
You can tell us it is faster but mind you that does not make it so
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Vista's performance
aussieblnd@... 7th Jul 2008
Heck I's can't even get Vista SP1 to install, it fails everytime.
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@aussieblnd....can you provide..
xuniL_z 7th Jul 2008
more detail? What is your error message/code?


Are you running 32 or 64 bit Vista? Which version? Ultimate?


Did you go get the service pack yourself, or are you allowing Windows update to bring it in and install it that way?


Please provide some basic information and i may be able to help you.


Your problem is not at all common.


I'll wait for your return post, hoping your original was not only for effect. wink
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didn't think so.
xuniL_z 11th Jul 2008
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In the long run, we're all dead
scott1329 7th Jul 2008
I doubt there is any relevance to a 10 year future operating system. Look at projects with that time frame and they're almost always DOA (standard C++, Perl 6, etc). Cairo was little more than building SQL server into Windows so it could be used as an OO file system, and that got nixed really, really fast once someone with a Cxx in their title realize the implications...
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The ideal operating system...
GrizzledGeezer 7th Jul 2008
...would look like nothing at all.

It would be self-configuring, self-correcting, and transparent to the user, except in rare cases where human intervention was absolutely needed. In such cases, the user would receive full information about the situation and guidance in how to resolve it.

People do not buy computers to run operating systems -- they buy them to "do things", a point Apple understands better than Microsoft.
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really?????
dave@... 7th Jul 2008
yet they crapware itunes... with quick time and safari... i just wanted to load my ipod with mp3.... wait... that is the problem... i wanted to do simple and easy on an apple prodcut.. my bad
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yes...your bad...really
michael.detroit@... 7th Jul 2008
What are you talking about?
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pull your head out
TheCrow_z 7th Jul 2008
Unclick the download everything button you twit!
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Agree but..
bklooste 22nd Apr 2009
100% agree , I think MS understand this MORE than Apple though obviously Marketers will try to sell the OS and they do this mainly through the selling the UI ( which is not really the OS) . It is VERY hard for MS to do an OSX and dump earlier users so the new OS cant support some of their apps ( or run them very slowly) eg they cant do things. I can still run my win16 apps out of the box without downloading or configuring an emulator.

Vista has many of the features you mention and you can see MS is trying to achieve exactly those goals. Note these goals apply to users not developers and an OS is very difficult to abstract away esp for device driver developers.

1) Application compatibility. If you want an OS to be transparent it must support the copy of Word for Windows 2000 i run , or that Direct X 7 game. Apple decided to change all and dump all the old apps. This is hard for an OS vendor and hence MS pushed developers to the .NET Framework after 8 years they can offer an OS that supports the framework but not Win 32. The .NET Framework ( and Java) allows the OS to be transparent. Even more so with the Silverlight runtime . I note a lot of apple apps that people use are still C++ and hence locked in to the OS ( Opera,Firefox, Word etc) .

A lot of Vista has these features
self-configuring, self-correcting, and transparent .

Vista has great features in terms of self configuring , the UI adjusts for the machine capabilities. Also setting up internet , i have 1 machine on the net and the others detect this and configure themselves even if it is a dial up. Machines also configure IP even if no DHCP is present.

Self correcting , it does a lot of this too. Auto defrag , auto disk check after crash , auto restore corrupted registry after x bad boots , auto restore to last known good configuration. Automated patching , Auto repair bad blocks in the file system etc.

Windows is bought NOT for the OS but for the apps that run on it and the consistency thereof..and it does a good job at it.
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There are many roads to compatibility
TheWerewolf Updated - 7th Jul 2008
Microsoft has a perfect solution for backward compatibility right in their hands. Virtual PC and Hyper-V.

The assumption that you have to make the *current* OS support everything is faulty. You build an OS with exceptional support for virtualising older OSes, then include them in the kit for people who need to run old software. This way, you keep the old stuff in a tightly controlled sandbox, but at the same time, you don't have to deal with tons of old API that you can't touch.

Apple did this with the transition to PowerPC in the early nineties - you ran your old 68K apps and the emulator kicked in. They did it again when MacOS X was created - you ran a classic app and it launched a copy of the older OS virtualised in a way that made it run as if it were native.

That gave Mac developers ten years or so to migrate their apps to MacOS X without Apple having to dedicate much in the way of resources to maintaining an old OS.

It's the solution that gives everyone what they want with the minimal cost and the minimal calcification of the OS.
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Let's hope Midori doesn't have a registry!
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If it has anything to do with Singularity, I am extremely excited. I've downloaded the Singularity RDK, and have compiled its base OS, along with some modifications. Awesome. Way awesome. I'm excited to see what happens, and in the mean time I'll take Singularity, Spec# and Sing# a little more seriously.
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This is exactly the correct conclusion.

On our way to the ideal, several evolutionary steps will be technical 'behind the scenes' (and noise) to the general public.

I've discovered that if I ask typical consumers with laptops, "What does Windows do" - they have no clue where email, the browser and the OS boundaries of operation are. Really, THEY shouldn't have to care, with one serious exception - choice.

They need to be able to choose what email system they use, which word processor they use, etc. - otherwise the 'ideal' system would end up being 'someone else's' idea of what THEY should have.

We've seen that emerge earlier than the 'ideal' - the 'push' marketing of applications to achieve dominance in the market.
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Yet, it wasn't perfect or ideal.

Lots of 'classic' applications wouldn't run in the 'classic' emulator, for them you had to reboot into OS9.

Still, your point is valid, and more valid with current VM technologies than the OS9/OSX example.
I went through considerable pain and expense migrating to Linux in the late '90s. It has proven to be a good choice and at the time there were good reasons for doing so. Absent a significant "wow" factor, we will not begin to consider another migration.
The more different the guts, the more similar the look; that is my prediction. Think 32- vs. 64-bit, compared with Win98xx and WinME.

Within Windows, the move to 64-bit - seemingly as irrelevant as NT 3.1 was, back in the day - is a great chance to shed dangerous compatibility

baggage, but so far some ambitions in this regard have been scaled back.

Windows 7 may be staying as trim as Vista (would be considered to be, on 2010 hardware) partly because of a need to work as a 32-bit OS.

Suspect this if there is to be a 32-bit Windows 7... but after that, once it's all 64-bit, that's when the earthworks can start.

Disclaimer: I'm an MVP but the above is pure speculation on my part - I have no access to any inside info on post-Vista OSs, nor have I sought any.
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Answer to Apples Grand Central
Mr. Dee 7th Jul 2008
You noted that this is a project looking to come out in the near future. I personally believe its functionality being built into Windows and Windows Development Tools to support parallelism of third party application development and ultimately better multi-threaded applications. So it could be answer to Apples Snow Leopard strategy like Grand Central.
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Relax MJF. I'm beginning to feel you aren't spreading FUD but you are helping to spread FUD by going a little overboard with "Midori - the successor to Windows" and your MinWin stories.
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The successor to Windows is: MoreWindows!
Makes for a fun discussion, but this goes way beyond speculation and well into the realm of fantasy.

There's plenty of evidence that 'Cairo' was merely - if not pure vaporware - a string of intriguingly worded 'wish list' concepts. (ie: The kind you get from Marketing, much to the chagrin of Development.) And these disparate elements were then wrapped up in a futuristic-sounding package with an exotic name, purely as artifice. They wanted to distract the market with one hand, while the other threw a quick & dirty shell (Win95) on DOS.

In one stroke MS confused the press & the competition, convincing them that Redmond had some momentum going in the OS game. Sure enough, we've been talking about these 'big surprises to come' for 10+ years, now!

Meanwhile, I've read many articles which said something to the effect of, 'some elements of Cairo found their way into other MS products'...but does that make sense to anyone? If Cairo really did include some big-time O-O implementations, then where in heck did they go? Certainly not NT 3.1. Or Win95. Or NT 3.5 - 4.0. Did I blink?

See related:

http://www.byte.com/art/9611/sec10/art5.htm
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4.06/4E2A8848-5738-45B1-A659-AD7473899D7D.html
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I have been reading some of these replies, and find them slightly amusing.

1. Vista is the client system for Windows 2008 server. Period. They have two different jobs to do.
2. XP is the client system for Windows 2003 Server. Comparing Vista against XP in 2008 enviroment and vice versa is, though valid as a user, not what MS was planning.
I use XP with 2003 and Vista with 2008 and I have no problems with either of them. They both do their jobs as they are supposed too.

If you have a performance problem with Vista, it normally goes back to programming and that the programmers didn?t listen to MS 5 Years ago. MS told the IT World that COM components weren?t going to be supported under Vista.
They have since then, built a way(call it simulator, translator, interpreter or whatever) into Vista that helps with using those old programmes. As we all know when you have to start "translating" stuff, everything starts to slow down. Or who has VMWare 2008 server that is as fast as it?s host system ?
Also, not everything can be translated, especially self developed Components, correctly.


So you can jump on the band wagon and bad mouth Vista or you can blame programmers for using old methods even though MS had already spoke out. Up to you.

Tony Hughes.
MCSE Windows Server 2003, MCTS, MCITP : Enterprise Administrator Windows Server 2008, CCNA
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After spending a large amount on programs for XP there is no way that a change to a different OS is going to be worthwhile. If Microsoft wants loyal customers they should continue to support older systems.
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"43% faster" this is a populistic statement that boggles my mind and insults my intelligence

maybe it's just my vista sp1 but i get error messages on my notebook including a "too little memory, quit following applications" on my 2 gig HP 6590ec notebook.

my favourite phrase is "in an ideal world...." but we don't live in ideal world. if the ratio of idiots and fools is in the whole world as about as same as in my place, there will be never a chance to build a good operating system, since companies are built from these people. not even the richest man in the world can change that, yes i am talking bill. the same goes for the apple jobs guy, he's good at pr - i remember the times when everyone believed that macos doesn't crash. when i saw it i realized it was truth - it did not crash, it simply froze. go figure. whatever, good luck guys, hope someone from you will do the ideal operating system. ideally both. or anyone else.
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RE: Might Microsoft's Midori be 'Cairo' revisited?
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