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OpenOffice users: Just say no to a Microsoft-like Ribbon interface

By | August 5, 2009, 3:09pm PDT

Summary: From the “truth is stranger than fiction” desk (via Slashdot), the OpenOffice.org camp is showing off a prototype of its rival desktop productivity suite that has a very Microsoft-Office-like interface. And many OpenOffice users are none too happy about it.

From the “truth is stranger than fiction” desk (via Slashdot), the OpenOffice.org camp is showing off a prototype of its rival desktop productivity suite that has a very Microsoft-Office-like interface.

OpenOffice.org’s “Project Renaissance,” launched in 2008, is all about the redesign  of the user interace of OpenOffice, a free, open-source office suite that competes directly with Microsoft Office. On July 31, the Renaissance team showed off a prototype of that new interface via Sun GullFOSS OpenOffice Engineering blog.

Surprise: It's not Office. It's OpenOffice

Much criticism ensued, primarily because the new UI looks an awful lot like the Ribbon UI that Microsoft introduced with Office 2007. While Microsoft officials have cited much telemetry data as proof that users love the Ribbon — a feature that MIcrosoft but almost no one else calls “Fluent” — I still hear (fairly often) from Office customers who find it far from intuitive. In some cases, Microsoft users have said the Ribbon has kept them from upgrading from older versions of Office.

Microsoft’s Ribbon is designed to expose more features of Office and to make them more accessible. But the Ribbon takes a bit (or a lot) of getting used to. I remember the first time I encountered a PC running Office 2007 at a Microsoft trade show. I could not find the print button, for the life of me. (A security guard standing nearby showed me where it was. She said she had watched people struggle with it all day and had learned where it was so she could help.)

Some love the Ribbon. Some detest it. The very first comment on the OpenOffice blog post about the new UI from “James” veers toward the latter opinion:

“Just out of curiosity, why is OOo aping Office 2007’s ‘Ribbon’ design? In addition to being unfamiliar to most users, it looks terribly out of place on anything except Windows Vista/7… Will there at least be an option to use an interface that is, er, usable?”

The comments largely go downhill from there. While there were a few Ribbon defenders, more folks were like poster “talkimposter,” who said:

“The ribbon is for absolute morons. In fact I use OpenOffice at work because they moved to Office 2007 and I just can’t stand that STUPID interface for idiots.

“OpenOffice needs to stop trying to be Office and just grow it’s own set of balls and be itself.”

Another example, from poster “thtanner”:

“must say moving towards an Office 2007 style ribbon.. thing.. is a horrific idea.

“Such a waste of space, unintuitive, and intrusive.”

More than one commentator mentions the large amount of screen real estate that the proposed OpenOffice ribbon would consume as a drawback.

Microsoft, for its part, is continuing to march ahead with the Ribbon and is adding it to all of its desktop Office 2010 apps. It will be interesting to see whether the Project Renaissance folks change course, based on user feedback, or march to the Microsoft drum on this one….

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

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Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

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RE: OpenOffice users: Just say no to a Microsoft-like Ribbon interface
homeioy82-24353643231178644135454771775432 11th Nov
reqxat,good post!
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They better follow Microsoft.
eganist 5th Aug 2009
Anyone who remember Jensen Harris' presentation at MIX08 knows that the Ribbon is the best thing to happen in user interface design in a long time. Lots of research went into it.

OOo would be best-off using Microsoft's research to their own advantage.
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Ribbon is great
paul2011 5th Aug 2009
In the worst case it is no worse than the regular windows menu. Usually things can be found easier on the ribbon then through the menus. As for the size it is not a problem with higher screen resolutions. On 800x600 every menu shadow seems like a waste of space but on 1600x1200 screen it is not a problem.
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We were both advanced users of the previous versions of Word and Excel. Some of the more advanced features in both are now so buried under the pretty, screen-stealing ribbon as to not be usable. Not sure where Microsoft did its research, but I don't know anyone who used their previous versions who actually prefers the ribbon over the compact, customizable, button bar they had before. Most just say it gets in their way and takes up document editing space.
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I disagree
bretthodel@... 5th Aug 2009
I would consider myself an expert in Word, Excel, and Access. I do complex VBA coding, macros, functions, etc. I have found that the ribbon opened capabilities up to me that I did not know about before. I also discovered that typical tasks can be done quicker using the ribbon. As a side benefit, because of the keyboard shortcuts the ribbon introduces, I can get things done far faster and easier using the keyboard shortcuts.
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Bad ribbon
Evil(er) Overlord 6th Aug 2009
I've been using Word since version 2 for DOS, and I think it's (mostly) great. I upgraded to Office 2007 because of and with great expectations for the Ribbon. Sadly, I found it impossible to love. It was impossible to customize, and I never got used to it (10 months of daily use). I switched to Open Office, then back to Word 2003. The Ribbon was THE major factor in the switch. If Word 03 ever stops being useful, I'll switch to Open Office again - unless they copy the damn ribbon too.
It takes up too much screen space on our laptops and I can't customize it to display only the buttons I use most, like I did with the old button bars. For us, the ribbon was an epic fail which left us longing for the old versions of Word. Unfortunately, we need to be compatible with others using the new version, so we're stuck.

I wish Open Office would focus solely on fixing the many formatting incompatibilities with Word and stop focusing so much on the interface. It really sucks when you make one change in Open Office and send it back to a Word user only to hear how you destroyed the document formatting.
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Uggg!
ICUR12 6th Aug 2009
I have Office 2007 on all of the machines here in the office. Its a tossup between whether the ribbon or the lack of compatibility in Excel is hated the most. No one likes either.

Not a day goes by withour someone DEMANDING Office 2003 back or cursing Excel 2007!

All of our machines are Vista Business since April of 2007 and everybody here loves Vista!

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Biggest complaint
LiquidLearner 6th Aug 2009
is the lack of customization. That is fixed in Office 2010. You can now customize the ribbons however you like, even create new ones. To me that was the one feature that 2007 lacked that could have made the ribbon really shine.
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Please use a search engine.
JustHaveToReact 7th Aug 2009
"It was impossible to customize, and I never got used to it (10 months of daily use)."

It might not be straightforward, but the ribbon is entirely customizable. A simple Google search might have told you that.

And in Office 2010, ribbon customization is made easier.
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Right on!
Heatlesssun 6th Aug 2009
The same thing happened to me. Expert Office users complain about but even a guy like me that has used Office forever but not a guru have been able to discover stuff I didn't even know existed.

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Include me in the "I disagree" group
jrbales@... 10th Aug 2009
I have to agree with bretthodel on 08/05/09 who stated the Ribbon Interface made it easier to find and employ capabilities he did not know about. I have to agree. Once I've used the ribbon a while, I really like it. Like anything else it takes getting used to, particularly if you're used to the old way of doing things. I'm glad to see the next version of Office will upgrade Outlook to also the Ribbon! Now, About Openoffice, while yes, technically it is a ribbon-type interface, what I see does not look nearly as good as the MS version. If you can't do better than the clunky look shown in this article, stick with the old interface.
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So you don't actually use the Ribbon
tracy anne 11th Aug 2009
As a side benefit, because of the keyboard shortcuts the ribbon introduces, I can get things done far faster and easier using the keyboard shortcuts.
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You can minimize the ribbon
NonZealot 5th Aug 2009
Most just say it gets in their way and takes up document editing space.

Hit the down arrow next to your "quick access toolbar" and select "Minimize the Ribbon". Try it, you might like it.

You can also custom the "quick access toolbar" and put any frequently used commands up there.
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Screen Real Estate
Freddy McGriff 6th Aug 2009
You can also ditch the 1024X768 resolution, get a 1600X1200 22 inch LCD and the ribbon just doesn't seem that large anymore!

I find that sometimes there are commands like "Switch Windows" that take more clicks than before... Well, that's why you can modify the "Quick Access Toolbar" I just added Switch Windows to it.

I work almost constantly with Excel and I find the Ribbon to be much faster and easier to find the esoteric things that you don;t use much. I actually find I use those features more now because I don't have to go fishing for the right dialog box.

The ribbon is simply a breath of fresh air. BTW I hated the ribbon for about the first 6 weeks as I adapted. Now I think button bar interfaces look so archaic...
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My desktop has a 30" and 24" display side-by-side. The problem is, like a lot of people, we also need to use Office on our laptops. On laptops, the ribbon eats up half the screen it seems.

I'll admit that a lot of normal stuff is more visual now, which is a plus. I just wish all of the bars were more customizable. Some stuff those ribbons show, I don't need. I'd like to be able to replace that stuff with stuff I DO need. Basically, I want to see ONLY what I actually use. I could do that on the old bars. So for me, the ribbon is not an improvement in the interface.
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And minimize the ribbon. Problem solved.

Either way in Office 2010 the ribbon is fully customizable.

http://content.zdnet.com/2346-12354_22-319754-3.html
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I hear what you're saying
LiquidLearner 6th Aug 2009
and the good news is, so does MS apparently. You can fully customize the ribbon in Office 2010.
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minimise the Ribbon...
kaninelupus 12th Aug 2009
and reveal when you need it, same as you would the Rulers. Keyboard shortcuts and on-the fly pop-up options mean that if the Ribbon chews up the realestate, can have hidden much of the time.

BTW, I'm using only a Notebook (17" monitor) and have plenty of room with a 1440x900 screen res, so really do fail to see any basis for complaint.
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What about the menus
drobinow 6th Aug 2009

I think you're missing the point. Buttons and ribbons both suck. I just want an interface with decent menus. Except for B,I,U, I've never used a button.
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Upgading of hardware? To use basic software?
devlin_X Updated - 8th Aug 2009
I swear they have stock in most of the various hardware vendors..... Everytime they come out with a new OS you can (with the exception of Windows 7 ) count on needing to upgrade hardware, now your telling me to upgrade my monitor and possibly graphics adapter for Office? LOL not happening......
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"say" != the way the brain works.
eganist 5th Aug 2009
The brain functions in marvelous ways. One of the biggest advances in UI design came when people learned that relying on what people say when using an interface can be highly misleading in terms of making the interface better.

Microsoft built the Ribbon through tons upon tons upon tons of research from outlets such as the customer experience improvement program as well as studies which went so far as to track eye movements to see how difficult finding a feature for the user happened to be.

Many of the participants said the ribbon was harder even though the research obtained from them indicated that the ribbon actually made them more productive. In other words, BillDem, you and your friends don't actually know how your own brains work :P
First off, using research from the customer experience program means their sample is slanted toward a specific type of person, meaning those who would actually turn that feature on. Second, unless I see the statistical sample selection method, the sample size, the standard deviation, and the margin for error in their "studies," I can't accept that they represent a true picture of all users. Lastly, even if their sample and testing method is valid, a large number of users will fall into the "outlier" category. Which is to say that, just because my small circle is unhappy with the customization restrictions and size of the ribbon interface, it does not mean everyone else is. Or even that our response to it is "normal." LOL

Besides, I admit I actually wanted to like it. The more I used it, the more I found I didn't. So technically, my brain was telling me it should be better but actual use is what told me I was wrong.
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It is a funny thing.
JustHaveToReact 7th Aug 2009
People don't turn on the customer experience program, yet they complain that Microsoft does not listen to their opinion. What do they expect?

If they are giving you the possibility to express your opinion and you don't do so, you have no right to complain afterwards if they didn't take your opinion into account.
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It is a funny thing
ICUR12 7th Aug 2009
That just means Microsoft didn't do a good job of designing how they ask for opnions
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To be that dogmatic doesn't show confidence as much as it does...well something not as desirable.

I'm still confused how anyone could be against a realtime, context-sensitive, auto preview/auto navigation system that has shown to reduce the amount of time to create a given document in half, or more.

I guess the Sales of Office 2007, which are well over 100,000,000, can speak for themselves.

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What about the QWERTY keyboard?
JohnOfStony 10th Aug 2009
It is a well-known fact that the QWERTY keyboard was designed with the specific aim of slowing down typists to eliminate key jams in the old mechanical typewriters. In the 1930s, Dvorak developed a much more efficient keyboard which speeded typing, reduced learning time and consequently improved productivity. How many Dvorak keyboards are in use today??? To give Microsoft credit where it's due, they do provide support for Dvorak keyboards. What I'm saying is that it's immaterial what 'research' discovers about User Interfaces; what matters is whether real people prefer it.

Imagine what would happen if 'research' showed that most people drove better if the brake and accelerator pedals were swapped and a large manufacturer started making cars with this new 'feature'. How many do you think they'd sell?

We live in a real world, not the academic world of research so beloved by some software designers. If you're going to make a radical change, at least have the common sense to allow the user to choose between the old and new interfaces e.g. Windows 98 to XP - XP users could opt to use the 98 style of interface - that was how it should be - and yet that change was nothing like as major as the 'menu with toolbars' to 'ribbon only' interface for Office 2007.

If Microsoft really wants to sell Office 2010, it'll bring back the menu + toolbars as an optional interface. If not, there's an awful lot of us still happy with Office 2003.
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Customizable is the key, here
frgough 5th Aug 2009
If you could customize the ribbon, it wouldn't be a bad interface, but
having MS lock you into the way they think you should use their product
is annoying. Especially since one of the great things about previous
versions of Word was its customizability.
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ROFL ROFL ROFL!!
NonZealot 5th Aug 2009
but having MS lock you into the way they think you should use their product is annoying

Coming from an Apple fanboy, this line is HILARIOUS!!! Thanks for the laugh. happy
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your comment
frgough 6th Aug 2009
Is off-topic and has been reported as spam.
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My question is
GuidingLight 6th Aug 2009
how much customizing can be done on the Apple created equivilent?

Why is Open Office copying the look of MSO 2007? Is it an attempt to fool users into thinking they have the same thing, or is it that many are finding it nice to use.
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They've added that in office 2010
MissingMatter 6th Aug 2009
http://content.zdnet.com/2347-12354_22-319754-319757.html?seq=3

If that's your only complaint about the ribbon, perhaps you'll like office 2010.
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Great news!! So 2010 will be more customizable?
BillDem Updated - 6th Aug 2009
Can we remove things as well as add them?


EDIT: Never mind - I see it in the picture! You can do both! Finally!
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Finally?
JustHaveToReact 7th Aug 2009
This has been possible in 2007 as well. Okay, it was harder to do so, but it was possible ...
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TOTALLY agree
Jim Johnson 6th Aug 2009
The first thing I have done since switching to Office a dozen years ago was rebuild the primary toolbars in each product to include the commands I use most. The only thing I hate about the Ribbon is I can't re-design the Ribbon contents to best fit my needs unless I either purchase a 3rd party tool or dive deep into VBA programming. I do use the quick access toolbar, but it is a POOR substitute!

The Ribbon could be more productive than the older toolbars, but only if I could shuffle a bunch of items.
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nt
RibbonX allows you to customize the ribbon.
It takes a little effort but it's not that hard if you know how to use XML.
One site you can look at is http://pschmid.net and you'll find a Ribbon customizer for 29.99 there also.
There are books on RibbonX on Amazon. There are webcasts for it @ microsoft.com.



and of course you can put everything you use all the time in the quick link tool bar and minimize the ribbon.

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Common error
JustHaveToReact 7th Aug 2009
It seems to be a common error that people think the ribbon in Office 2007 applications is not customizable.

A simple Google search turns up dozens of pages describing how to do the customization.

I agree that it is not as simple as it should be in Office 2007 but fortunately MS learned from that mistake for Office 2010.
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and exactly how is it not customisable??
kaninelupus 12th Aug 2009
Ever tried customising that Mac of yours?
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That's My Experience
DannyO_0x98 5th Aug 2009
I can work with it and I don't like it. A lot of times, I still use the old
Excel keystrokes to get things done.

One thing I don't get from a theory point of view is why grabbing
more screen space is a good idea. Push people to go and buy bigger
screens? Then -Ouch- on that whole netbook thing. Beyond that to
do something out of context requires changing context to get the
right ribbon and changing context again. With a menu, all contexts
are available at all time.

Yet more reasons why I prefer OpenOffice.org.

My experience regarding co-workers is that they don't like the ribbon.
Some of them are starting to think I'm on to something with my
OpenOffice.org advocacy.

My advice to Ooo: avoid the peer pressure and don't shot yourself in
the foot just because the big kids are doing it.
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And don't find the ribbon too big. This is a wide screen monitor where horizontal pixels are precious. I feel comfortable giving up the real estate because I feel the ribbon makes me so much more productive.

I'm currently writing technical documentation for a new product my company is releasing. It has figures and tables with auto-updating captions, an auto index, an auto TOC, cross referencing, an attractive style set, works cited, footnotes, equations, in four languages.

Before this document, I didn't know about half these features because they were buried under menus. Did Word 2003 have a cross-referencing feature? I couldn't tell you because I never used it (because I never found it), but I definitely would have liked to. In 2007 it was right there, and easy for me to find and use.

I'm currently at 50 pages in a weeks time, and I honestly don't think I could have a document of this quality with Word 2003 given the same time frame.
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Six complaints from the office
GuidingLight 6th Aug 2009
out of thirty users, so while it is not everybody's cup of tea, it appears to be acceptable by the vast majority of users here.
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Why not make menu toolbars OPTIONAL?
JohnOfStony 10th Aug 2009
Can anyone give me one good reason why the interface should not be user selectable like the Windows 98/XP interface was?

A user selectable interface with feedback to Microsoft would be by far the best way for Microsoft to ascertain the success or otherwise of the ribbon versus the menu + toolbars.

So, Open Office - switchable interface please!
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yes thank you - OPTIONAL
MIS Master 10th Aug 2009
Microsoft should have made it optional. I dont know why they would take what is known as the industry standard for office applications and decided to force a change of the standard. I am a fan of Microsoft but I think the office toolbar is something I truly hate about Microsoft.
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I used to hate the ribbon too
BroGnorik 6th Aug 2009
Until I discovers you can add any shortcut you use the most on the Quick Access Toolbar next to the office button. Once I added all the shortcuts I use, I get more done faster.

Once people discoved this they'll love it too.

Here is how to do it. In any Office product, Click on the Office Button (Big Circle top left corner) Click on Product Options. (Word will have word options, excel will have excel options. etc...)

Click customize. The popular commands are default in the left, you can change that to all commands. Once you find your commands place it on the right side for any of your commands.

Nice and simple.
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How'd you figure that out?
drobinow 6th Aug 2009
Thanks.
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I clicked on everything
BroGnorik 6th Aug 2009
There is nothing in Office 2007 I did not click on, do I remember everything no, but once I found that, it made life sooo much easier.
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You can do it that way
MissingMatter 6th Aug 2009
Or right click on any button and select "Add to Quick Access Toolbar."

Also if you want you can put the toolbar below the ribbon by right clicking on a button ad select "Show Quick Access Toolbar Below the Ribbon"
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Advanced my butt!
kaninelupus Updated - 12th Aug 2009
I work in a large highschool, teaching digital arts and IT, and I'd say the Ribbon is the interface of choice for btwn 90-95% of our staff and students. Some of the older staff took longer to adjust, and most who don't like it are in that generation.

To say you're an advanced user, and then complain of the difficulty in finding advanced tools still makes any such claims of ability absolute FLUFF!! The Office 2007 HELP client is comprehensive enough that if you get stuck, it should sort you out quickly. Find it once and should be able to locate from that point on
...and then being told you have to do it completely differently. I've been an Office user since 1993. Simply changing to the ribbon without giving their long-term users the option of using Office the way they've been used to for over a decade showed a complete disregard for users and productivity. Whoever made the final decision should have been biotch slapped, and hard.
To me, the ribbon was finally a move toward a more user friendly UI/menu system. Having the means of interacting with your Word, Excel, or PowerPoint file buried in a bunch of drop-down menus and cluttered dialogs that you had to memorize never made sense to me. I am much more productive using the Office 2007 Ribbon.

But why not offer a simple options selection to switch back to the Office 2003 interface? (Okay, maybe programming effort ($), stability, bloat, ...).

And why make it difficult to do some very common tasks - like printing!
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RE: OpenOffice users: Just say no to a Microsoft-like Ribbon interface
homeioy82-24353643231178644135454771775432 11th Nov
reqxat,good post!

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