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Testers riled by Microsoft decision to pull Drive Extender storage from 'Vail,' 'Aurora' servers

By | November 23, 2010, 11:09am PST

In a move that has riled a number of Windows Home Server enthusiasts, Microsoft has announced it is removing its Drive Extender storage technology from the upcoming Windows Home Server ‘Vail,” Small Business Server Essentials “Aurora” and Windows Storage Server 2008 R2 Essentials “Breckenridge” products.

Vail, Aurora and Breckenridge are all in the later phase of testing, at this point. Microsoft officials said earlier this fall to expect Aurora and Breckenridge to be released in the first half of 2011.

Microsoft announced its decision to axe the advanced storage system — which provides for storage pooling of multiple hard drives and automated data duplication — via a November 23 post to the Windows Home Server blog. Microsoft attributed the decision to customer and partner test feedback that indicated Drive Extender was not meeting customer needs.

“Customers also told us that they wanted easier access to data stored on Drive Extender drives so they are able to view these files outside of Drive Extender,” according to the blog post.

Microsoft officials said the company is looking to OEMs and relying on existing Windows storage to provide data protection for its home and small-business server users. From a Microsoft blog post on the STB Bytes blog:

“While this (axing of Drive Extender) removes the integrated ability for storage pooling of multiple hard drives and automated data duplication, we are continuing to work closely with our OEM partners to implement storage management and protection using industry standard RAID solutions. This will provide customers greater choice as well as a seamless experience that will meet their storage needs.  Customers will also have access to the in-built storage solutions Windows Server 2008 R2 provides for data protection, including software RAID support. We are also still delivering core features such as automated Server and PC backup, easy sharing of folders and files, Remote Web Access and simplified management without any expected changes.”

The “We Got Served” enthusiast site called the decision a “shock move,” despite the fact that the Drive Extender version 2 technology that was slated to be part of the various home/small business servers has faced a barage of criticism from testers.

From We Got Served’s November 23 blog post about the Drive Extender issue:

Drive Extender, seen by many as one of Microsoft’s most innovative engineering feats of recent years, was a storage replication system that managed Windows Home Server’s storage pool, allowing the use of any combination of internal and external drive types, removing the need for drive letters and providing duplication of files and folders to protect from hard disk failure.”

Terry Walsh, the head of We Got Served, noted that Drive Extender “has not been without its fair share of controversy,” as a serious bug discovered in the feature in 2007 caused data corruption among some Windows Home Server users. “It took Microsoft two months to acknowledge the seriousness of the issue, and a further seven months to fix the bug,” Walsh noted.

Microsoft’s decision on Drive Extender — in spite of company official’s claims to be fueled by customer and tester feedback — doesn’t seem to be winning the company any friends. Ouch.

Microsoft officials said target product availability, in spite of today’s move, is still the first half of calendar 2011, and “we expect to deliver a new beta without drive extender for Windows Home Server Code Name ‘Vail’ and Small Business Server 2011 Essentials early in the new year.”

What do you think Microsoft should have — and still should/might do — around storage with these products?

Update: Microsoft officials have added another post on the Drive Extender decision to the Windows Home Server blog. This one is a little more forthright, and notes that the axing — which many testers see as more dire for Vail than Aurora or Breckenridge — was applied universally across the product family, despite the potentially different impact on different products in that family. The post concludes:

Let me completely confirm we are 100% committed to Vail, and continue to work on all the core features outside of Drive Extender. We fully expect to be able to show some of our new and partnered OEM solutions at CES.”


Update 2
: Some WHS Vail testers have taken up a petition to try to convince Microsoft to bring back Drive Extender.

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

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Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Testers none too happy with Microsoft's decision to pull Drive Extender storage from 'Vail,' 'Aurora' servers
makrekdw66-24353629694293760060732252096446 10th Nov
tbkuba,good post!
This is just plain stupid on Microsoft's part. Fortunately, Microsoft is getting hammered on their blog posting; I haven't seen a single positive comment there yet.
@roteague

After all these years you should know that M$ promises high and delivers low, if it bothers to deliver at all. This is yet another contemptible decision by M$ that demonstrates that its supposed commitment to customers is barely even words.
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Barnes & Noble, so far, is not backing down, and is taking its fight public with Microsoft over its
According to B&N?s response to Microsoft?s legal complaint, Microsoft told B&N officials that the Nook
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RIP Home Server
kay.one Updated - 23rd Nov 2010
As far as I'm concerned WHS is dead. I don't think anyone buys the BS that this decision was based on market research. I understand if there are technical reasons not to do it, but don't come out and say users have said that we won't need it.

Go read any of the reviews for home server. drive extender is the selling point.

Vote for this feature to come back:
https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsHomeServer/feedback/details/624029/add-drive-extender-back-to-vail
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WHS Fail
msawyer91 23rd Nov 2010
@kay.one I think they should drop the name Vail altogether and call it Windows Home Server Fail, SBS Essentials Fail and Server 2008 R2 Fail. They can kiss that entire product line good-bye.
@msawyer91

While an awesome feature on WHS, I'm not entirely sure I like it in SBS or R2. How will it handle an Exchange database using the idea of pooled storage? SQL? Numerous other applications. Those products are application servers usually more-so than file server. In those two products you'd be insane to use data duplication over RAID.

I do agree it's stupid to remove the feature from WHS. It was an awesome feature. And really it's a perfect environment for it to grow into a file system that could one day completely replace NTFS as we know it. Stupid move MS on that front.

And if they're killing it off on all product lines for some customer feedback, why not just make it optional? I would use the drive extender for file sharing on a server and a RAID for application data. Give WHS the same option. Problem solved.
@LiquidLearner

I expressed your exact sentiment on the Windows Home Server Team Blog (windowsteamblog.com).

Basically what MS is doing in terms of developing the three products (WHS, SBS and Storage Server) is trying to reuse as much code and functionality between them. That just makes financial sense.

At some point, however, they need to remember that WHS is a home user product, while the other two are business ones. So while it makes sense to couple the products together for ease of development and code reuse, at some point they need to be uncoupled and "polished" for their respective markets.

Microsoft has reached that point with WHS. It's time to uncouple this product from the two business products and let it shine on its own.

Matt
I don't use duplication, but I love the storage pooling. Won't this break an installation if an upgrade is attempted?
@spivonious That takes care of that then. I don't think Acer would offer an upgrade for the H340 anyway.
@Mike (not Cox)

2003 to 2008 R2 ~ XP to 7

No upgrade unfortunately. Or perhaps fortunately as I think people will keep running the existing one as long as they can.
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The problem: All users are not equal.
peter_erskine@... 23rd Nov 2010
It sounds as though many users just wanted simple basic storage, while a select few wanted more advanced features. They really need to isolate the Drive Extender features into an optional (but free) extra package; and they should also spell-out the limitations of Drive Extender storage BEFORE the user commits to it.
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Good thinking
orcmid 24th Nov 2010
@peter_erskine@... Good point. Legacy support would be great and it provides the flexibility for us to manage simply. I think the bigger problem is that it smells like the only way you get duplication on Vail is with RAID. For all I know, they might not support SATA as first-class drives at all for whatever the OEM configurations are. I find this an unimaginable direction.
At some point, MSFT will obsolete WHS 1 the way they are becoming notorious for (e.g., not having a connector in Windows 8). In the meantime, my risk management plan is to find a second WHS 1.0 box cheap and keep it as a reserve when my current one eventually fails. Funny, this sort of thing was done in the mainframe past when folks wanted more power but not the next generation. Look mommy, Microsoft growing up turns into IBM!
fortune for something that suuucks, then Microsoft pulls features!!!!!
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LOL! Well, there's no chance you'll lose your
John Zern Updated - 23rd Nov 2010
"crown" DonnieBoy. Still pissed that so many people passed up a clunky old command line Linux server for WHS instead?

No need to answer, it shows. happy

Though now I know exactlly how you propeller heads idiots feel when Google pulls products all the time.

Oh, and when did WHS at 99 dollars become "a small fortune"
LOL! happy
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$99 WHS
orcmid 24th Nov 2010
@John Zern Hey, where can I get one of those. It looks like my contingency plan for keeping WHS 1.0 alive in my setup would be to find another box to keep in reserve in the event of my current MediaCenter Server failing.
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orcmid, Tiger Direct
John Zern 24th Nov 2010
79.99 at the moment, OEM disk with license.
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When is $99 a small fortune?
Wolfie2K3 1st Dec 2010
@John Zern
When Donnie only gets $20 a week allowance from his mum and dad..?

Don't forget, he probbly still lives in his parent's basement...
@DonnieBoy This is nothing new for Microsoft, they started this technique back in the DOS 5.0 days.
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Go to the cloud
curph 23rd Nov 2010
DropBox is effortless.
@curph

The problem is that not everyone has the upload speed to get their data there. I've got several TB of data and a ~300 kbps upload speed - do the math. And if you want to stream media, you probably won't get a very good experience from cloud storage, if it even works at all.
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@DaveN_MVP: A terabyte would take almost a year at 300kbps.
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sure, point me at the 10TB cloud offering
rtk Updated - 23rd Nov 2010
@curph

(crickets)
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rtk, what do have that's 10TB big?
ahh so 24th Nov 2010
Unless you've been downloading unlimited porn for the last few years.

lol... grin
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10 TB isn't THAT much...
Wolfie2K3 1st Dec 2010
@ahh so
It's about 1250 dual layer DVDs crammed full of data (about 8 GB each) ripped to the hard drive. That's assuming you have no music, or other media. It's a nice movie collection...
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Re: What do have thats 10TB Big
bobiroc 1st Dec 2010
@ahh so

Just like a child to think porn right off the bat. I have about 4TB of media files currently of movies ripped to my Windows Media center for easy streaming and music ripped from CDs (mostly). One of my friends that has a WHS is a DJ and has over 10TB of media files for his music/music and video files he creates and plays for weddings and other events. All of which he can access virtually everywhere using his laptop and an internet connection. Thankfully most reception halls have WiFi now because he has a Cell Card but that can get expensive and is not as fast most times. Good for music but the videos can be a pain on a 3G connection.
@curph, are there any ISPs out there that can provide up to 3GBps? Or maybe a 6GB/s? 10? 15?

Are there any 16,384-bit SSL+SSHA+MD5 encryption to protect my data as I upload all my DVD collections to the cloud?

Seriously, I would trust the cloud...over my dead body. grin
@curph Apples and oranges. And as somebody else pointed out, some don't have the upload speed. I'm limited to 60Kb/s uploads, while downloads are over 10Mbps. Either way, Dropbox wouldn't cut it. I can't run things like TwonkyServer or SqueezeBox Server off that, for instance.
@curph Yeah sure. Great Idea. Put all your multigigabyte movies and music into the cloud....
@curph

Does dropbox offer seamless sharing of files and media in the household computer for streaming and easy access? Does dropbox offer full and incremental backup automatically for all the household computers with the ability to restore with a few clicks? The closest thing I have seen (and there may be others) is a Drobo type device and I saw one of those in action and while it was fairly easy it was not nearly as easy as WHS and still lacked functionality that WHS offers. A WHS may be a little more money but is worth it IMO.
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upset that their solutions where being overlooked thanks to Drive Extender, Lining up the SEC/DOJ litigation machine?
Drive Extender was a major selling point for many users, this is a huge mistake for Vail.
WHS has two reasons to exist in my house:

1. It automatically sets up an excellent "no-brainer" nightly backup regimes for my various Windows boxes

2. Drive Extender - which allows easy addition and swapping in/out of drives to the storage pool

By eliminating 2, I need to re-evaluate if reason 1 is enough to keep me with WHS, or whether I should look elsewhere for an alternative solution.
@dechah
Exactly. And to get this I have to put up with remote access over the internet only through IE (WebDAV does not work with Win 7 clients, FTP is insecure and inexpensive implementations on WHS stink, SFTP -- I wish). Might as well go back to Linux server with hardware RAID and try and find decent backup software.

The one thing I would really miss is the HP EX-495 form factor. I've had linux installed on one but all you can do is software raid.

Wonder where I can find a small form factor case with hot swap bays and a RAID card?
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Symptomatic
johnfenjackson@... Updated - 23rd Nov 2010
"We are continuing to work closely with our OEM partners to implement storage management and protection using industry standard RAID solutions."

It is symptomatic of M$'S decline that 'we are continuing to work closely' ... with a technology invented in 1988.
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I think you should move along
John Zern 23rd Nov 2010
They're talking things way over your head.
Do they have technology like that in O$ X or Linsux?
@johnfenjackson@...

and so most technology was invented many years ago. I mean x86 technology was invented in the late 60's or so and is still the dominant technology used in todays computers and servers. It has been improved just like every technology has since the industrial revolution (if not before)
tbkuba,good post!

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