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The mystery of Windows 8's new 'Protogon' file system

By | May 31, 2011, 2:01pm PDT

Summary: Here’s a Windows 8 feature about which I haven’t heard before: A possible new file system known as “Protogon.”

Windows enthusiast Sandro Villinger has a nice summary of some of the known and unknown Windows 8 features that various folks have discovered since internal “milestone” builds began leaking over the past couple of months.

Villinger makes a passing mention of something I hadn’t heard of in his Windows 8 Top 10:  Something named (or codenamed) “Protogon.”

From his May 31 IT World article:

“I’ve also dug up traces of some underlying file system changes that I couldn’t quite make sense of, such as an entirely new file system driver called “NT Protogon FS driver”, which looks like a kernel mode driver for some sort of (yet unknown) file system called Protogon. It’s unclear, whether this is a major new file system or just some minor subsystem.”

I asked Rafael Rivera of “WithinWindows” fame as to whether he’d heard of Protogon. He did a quick check and said that whatever Protogon is, it  seems to incorporate database-like concepts like transactions, cursors, rows and tables. He said it includes a string, which seems to indicate Protogon could replace or at least emulate NTFS (the NT file system) as needed. Rivera also wondered if Protogon might be an update of the “Jet Blue” file system/extensible storage engine adapted for the latest version of Active Directory and Exchange Server.

There were a lot of rumors early on about Windows 8, including that it might have a brand-new file system. Now I’m wondering what this thing really is. WinFS revisited? (WinFS was a new storage engine that was supposed to be part of Windows Vista, but which was largely shelved, save some concepts that went to the SQL team.)

I doubt we’ll hear anything about Protogon during Windows Chief Steven Sinofsky’s appearance at the AllThingsD conference on Wednesday. (Sinofsky may show off the Windows 8 interface for tablets, according to rumors and reports.)

Windows 8 is expected to be released to manufacturing in 2012 (in spite of any/all official retractions you may read about).

Anyone have any guesses (educated or not) about Protogon?

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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dough sheeter
dough rounder 11th Dec
I'm kinda paranoid about losing everything I've worked hard on. Any tips?
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Hmmm.. Looking forward to D9 conference , May be it can reveal some answers !!!
I think this system is based on XAM and XFS which is a "content aware storage system" enables a lot of interesting features. Microsoft is pushing "content aware storage" for a while and this might be time to release a filesystem that can connect with cloud ( skydrive) seamlessly.
@vigya@...
XFS? Oh, my god! If you are right it is better to have a cluster bomb drop on your house- it will be less damage.
@I am Gorby He posts garbage all the time - isn't that enough!
  • Flagged
Microsoft is pushing "content aware storage" for a while and this might be time to release a filesystem that can connect with cloud ( skydrive) seamlessly. Research Papers
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@kirovs@... I do not understand the mistery. Internet it's full of information about it.
Termopan
@vigya@...
Hmmm...using Windows 7 professional would give the available downloadable packet to search within a Windows Server 2008. So, this 'Protogon' file system may make content placement given to the end user without location priorities.
I've often wondered if MS wouldn't move their native OS file and SharePoint's RDBMS-based storage closer to one another.
I hope this is WinFS revisited. I fell in love with WinFS when I first seen it and was devistated when they trashed it.
@PriMinister - be glad they didn't release WinFS. While it was a great idea, it was plagued with MANY issues which MS didn't have the time to work out. Components of WinFS already live on in Windows' file indexing/search and in SQL server.

I'd expect that any future filesystem from MS would bring together some of the aspects of metadata storage and retrieval along with things like logical volume management which should make up for the loss of dynamic volume management in Windows Home Server.
Since they are looking at changing file systems, maybe they can overhaul SQL Server DBs as well. I think if they were to invent SQL DBs today they would be very different, and T-SQL would probably not even exist, in favour of a object oriented *style* syntax.
@PriMinister - huh? How, specifically, do you want Microsoft to overhaul SQL?

SQL is a VERY powerful, fairly well standardized data manipulation language.

Object Orientation and RDBMS do not fit well together for good reason - they're orthogonal constructs designed to solve different problems.
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I think...
wolf_z 1st Jun
@bitcrazed

...PriMinister is talking about T-SQL, not the structure of SQL Server databases themselves. I agree with him, T-SQL needs some serious revision, starting with the elimination of concatenation of statements by ; which is the source of *a lot* of SQL injection attacks.

Eliminating the promiscuous whitespace wrapping of statements wouldn't hurt either!

Finally, T-SQL is far too COBOL-like for my taste.

Other than that, I agree with bitcrazed, SQL itself is a well understood domain and very powerful. It's just the T-SQL extensions that suck.
@bitcrazed,

concatenated sql statements are a function of poor programming practices, not poor design from a T-SQL standpoint. Object oriented syntax, instantiating collections of objects in memory, is really not what a database is about and would be (IMO) performance prohibitive. T-SQL in recent revision have incorporated some object oriented features such as custom data types, table types and table valued parameters.
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@bitcrazed

Since SQL Server 2008+ can store ANY data, much like a file system, I'm not sure it really needs an overhaul.
-1 Votes
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More Vaporware from Microsoft.
@bitrate
I think something has to be announced or advertised before it can really be called Vapourware. Hints in a leaked build hardly counts.
@bitrate

Your software isn't a working product until it becomes vaporware first.
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Message has been deleted.
fatman65535 Updated - 1st Jun
  • Flagged
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ZDNet: Fix your damned comment system
DeusXMachina Updated - 1st Jun
Who is the idiot who left the unclosed tag in their comment and why is ZDNet's system so stupid it doesn't stop it from iterating?!!
There, fixed.
What they need to do is set the bar really high for OS X and Linux but that will never happen from the Windows team so neither Windows 7 nor what ever versions they come up with will prevent people from flocking towards Mac and Linux
@shellcodes_coder
Ugh, why do you post stuff like this? It makes us all look bad.
@shellcodes_coder
this trolling.

But then again, maybe we are just setting the bar too high for you to reach?
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Thanks DeusXMachina
ncironman Updated - 1st Jun
for your post to @shellcodes_coder
I AGREE! I read these post for some tidbits of USEFUL information and education. NOT to listen to kindergartners squabbling in the playground. Thanks too to John Zern.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
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I took out my italic tag....but!
ncironman Updated - 1st Jun
...As John Zern above noted, ZDNet's syntax editor is a little lacking? My User name & posting date is still (now was) italicized? Go figure?
  • Flagged
Maybe it is pulling in features of Drive Extender from Home Server?
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I think the Microsoft developer community would be euphoric - I know I would be. Although Linq allows you to do SQL-like queries on anything that might be in the file system, underneath its still iterative and slow... to get something with true relational lookup would be a revolutionary advance in computing.
0 Votes
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I agree
WilErz 1st Jun
@ rbethell

Managing data with a Unix-like hierarchical tree of byte streams is terribly old fashioned (and made even worse on Windows by arbitrary and ridiculous 'drive letters'). This remains the case even with indexing services layered on top. If Microsoft have worked out a way to move to a more database-like system without breaking compatibility, I'll be very impressed. Nobody else has managed it in a mainstream desktop/server OS.

A lot of people talk about moving towards a 'Semantic Web', which I'm strongly in favour of doing (especially with verifiable metadata), but software on local hardware should understand the meaning of data too. It should eventually be based on open standards (with 'Rand' access), but these could follow initial proprietary implementations (which is usually the way successful software standards emerge).
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Message has been deleted.
X41 Updated - 1st Jun
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Congrat...
marco_enxuto 1st Jun
Mary i love your articles. Keep it up your excelent job! grin
0 Votes
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Is it even a file system?
Lester Young 1st Jun
Pretty thin evidence as to what it really is.
0 Votes
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I know it's still over a year away, but there's just too much mystery at this point to feel anything by concern about what is actually going to be delivered, and whether it will work well on existing h/w. Me, I'm already looking forward to Windows 9, which will be, like #7, the previous version "done right" (and 8, like Vista, a version that can be, or should have been, skipped by the vast majority of consumers)
@still fiddlin
i wouldn't doubt it. How can you skip when you buy a laptop already loaded with vista?
@bApTizE
If you *have* to buy something, go to the "commercial" business side of HP, Dell, et al. They keep selling prior versions of Windows (until Microsoft forces them to stop) to meet business customer requirements. They were selling new PCs with XP until last fall. With enterprise making the shift to Win7 (and skipping Vista), Win7 will be around for a long time, IMO. You'll likely also end up with a better made product than the "latest & greatest" color of plastic that's being pushed in the big box stores.
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What's with all the censorship here?
mkpelletier@... 1st Jun
Why are there so many deleted posts here? Surely not all these people are saying vulgar or offensive things. What gives? I would like to follow the discussion, but is difficult given the level censorship.
@mkpelletier@... lately, there are a lot of spam postings. i have flagged several lately. And it's no just this site. If you see an ad pretending to be a comment, flag it.

It looks like we need a new generation of captcha's.
oh, what's new! Microsoft marketing a new OS. I'm still on XP but switched to Ubuntu unity.

Have a great day.
0 Votes
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seems a more appropriate title to this "Talkback."
I think the "Master File Table" is going to be re-envisioned to help create more relationships between files and directories.
Didn't the Power Rangers beat the crap out of Protogon?
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Yes, it's obviously true; (I'm formatting one of my disks now :D) but not really sure about the difference yet. I'm running the recently released Windows 8 Developer Preview.
This system is based on the fundamentals that operating systems are large databases stemming from the, considered antiquated, days of UNIX. This type of data management is far more logical and evident in the Windows registry and paging file that is comparable to the exact same file system management documents used in MySQL and PostGreSQL. This is Windows back to Basics and it only took until version 8 or is that 7 or 9 in Windows linguistics. My hat's off to Balmer and his push for the operating system that Windows should have always been.

I had the same idea based on the basics and principles of design and aptly, all operating systems should conform to the golden rules of database and data management. BLOBs in a database could be managed in a more secure fashion than any DLL in an operating system and we should see better security in the near future. As for ZFS and the like Protogon should allow for more robust, secure and consistent interfacing as the design is more fundamentally logic.

I should be doing this stuff professionally -- wish me luck and keep your chins up. Balmer is on the horizon and he is one of the good guys and we'll get the opportunity to see Windows convergence with UNIX style systems. I'm foaming at the mouth over this one.

Take care all and leave the porch light on -- you'll be happy that you did -- and, no I don't work for Microsoft (not yet anyway).
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RE: The mystery of Windows 8's new 'Protogon' file system
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RE: The mystery of Windows 8's new 'Protogon' file system
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dough sheeter
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