Wall Street still worrying over netbook impact on Microsoft's Windows 7 sales

By | September 9, 2009, 11:36am PDT

Summary: No matter how many times Microsoft officials claim that they believe the company will be able to charge premium prices for Windows 7, even on netbooks, Microsoft watchers ask again about just how elastic Windows’ pricing really can be, given that netbooks go for a few hundred dollars.

How much will netbooks dent Microsoft’s Windows sales?

It’s a question that continues to preoccupy many a Wall Street analyst, especially as Microsoft marches toward the October 22 launch of Windows 7. No matter how many times Microsoft officials claim that they believe the company will be able to charge premium prices for Windows 7, even on netbooks, Microsoft watchers ask again about just how elastic Windows’ pricing really can be, given that netbooks go for a few hundred dollars.

On September 9, the netbook question arose again during a question and answer session with Microsoft Chief Financial Officer Chris Liddell at the Citi Annual Global Technology Conference. Analysts asked Liddell the same-old: When Bing will actually give Google a run for its money; whether Microsoft would be able to continue to control costs; whether and when Microsoft will do stock buybacks (yes and in the coming months, Liddell said).

But analysts seemed most interested in the netbook issue. How can Microsoft predict that the continued popularity of netbooks, which comprise a fifth of the portable PC market (according to a recent market study), isn’t going to force Microsoft to charge less per copy of Windows, rather than more?

As expected, Liddell didn’t share details about how much Microsoft is planning to charge PC makers per copy for Windows 7 Starter or Windows 7 Home Premium, the main two SKUs expected to show up on low-end netbooks. (Word is Microsoft charges about $15 per copy for XP on netbooks.) But he did share more about why he said he isn’t worried about potential price erosion with Windows 7.

First, Liddell said that he believes netbooks, as a category, are “maturing.” They aren’t topped out yet and, according to Microsoft’s calculations, represent about 10 percent to 15 percent of the overall PC market. But they are likely to grow a percentage point or two higher, at most, he told Citi conference attendees.

Secondly, Microsoft is planning to continue to offer PC makers the option of licensing Windows XP “for a period of time,” as well, he said. That could appease the makers of some of the lowest price-point netbooks, at least for the time being. (Microsoft has said that OEMs will be able to license XP Home edition through June 2010 or one year after general availability of Win7, which I’m assuming means October 2010.)

Liddell reiterated Microsoft’s claim that 92 percent to 93 percent of netbooks are now going out with Windows XP, not Linux, attached. He said that proves that people are willing to pay at retail a premium of $30 to $40 per copy for “the Windows experience,” even when offered an alternative that is free. He acknowledged Microsoft won’t ever get to the 100 percent preload “attach” with netbooks, but even in the bargain segment, there is a group of people willing to pay for the familiar Windows experience — especially those netbook users who care more about the small form-factor benefits than the cut-rate price tags.

How Microsoft thinks about the actual cost of Windows was the part of Liddell’s remarks I found most interesting.

While Microsoft charges multiple hundreds of dollars for a new copy of Windows, Liddell said the actual cost is $15. Here’s how he calculated that number: The average selling price for Windows (when figured across all versions) is $60 per copy, he said. The average user sticks with a particular version of Windows for four years. So the cost of Windows isn’t really $249 or even $99. It’s $60 divided by four, or $15 for a “one year experience.” And if you compare $15 to the cost of having to learn a new OS or port your apps to a new platform, Windows looks downright cheap, Liddell said.

Hmmm. I’m not really buying Liddell’s new math. It’ll be interesting to see if any company watchers are finally appeased by his netbook assurances. Are you?

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

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Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

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RE: Wall Street still worrying over netbook impact on Microsoft's Windows 7 sales
makrekdw66-24353629694293760060732252096446 Updated - 11th Nov
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I would be happy and MS would have a "steady" yearly cash stream. Unfortunately, the current setup is, "pay me now, enjoy later (maybe)".
With the pay me now scheme, there is no incentive to keep me happy once I am scalped. The only option is to wait for the next "pay me now" cycle.
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True cost of ownership? Not $15!
SteveCarr 9th Sep 2009
Given the amount of productive time lost each year due to Windows updates, go-slows, crashes and the like, a true cost of ownership for Windows of $15 a year is a total pipe dream. The cost would be at least one, more like two to three orders of magnitude greater than that. Especially if you have to pay some pimple faced MSCP to do your support.
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What Windows are you using?
Fark 9th Sep 2009
I have had all manner of windows running on various machines... and I have had almost NO downtime in the last few years. I have real paid-for versions and have set my updates to 'auto' (and at 3:00 am) and I have a good free Antivirus program.

I have had no issues with updates or outages.
0 Votes
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The one most of us are using...
storm14k 9th Sep 2009
I don't know what Windows YOU are using but my work PC is up to date and is as slow as a snail stuck to duct tape. I experience plenty of downtime and always have with just about any Windows machine I come across.
  • Flagged
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omg!! what are you talking about?
sunflier 9th Sep 2009
I've had windowsXP running on a computer for over a year and a half running free AV and not once had to work on it. Also, running Windows7 on another PC. I push both computers hard with high-end games and both are very solid and do not have to do anything to it either.

I've had no crashes, no downtime.

What are yo doing to your computers??
Two computers run by a professional that knows how
to keep out of trouble, and what he should not click
on, does not a sample make.
  • Flagged
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Where are the major problems?
reichart67 Updated - 9th Sep 2009
Honestly, among about twenty computers running
XP scattered about my family and friends none
of them have had more than minor problems in at
least three years. I read posts like yours but
even when I talk with other "techie" friends
who help their family and friends we have no
idea where you get so-called statistics like
"tons of problems".

Sure, there will always be problems. No product
in any field is perfect. But I could list 100
families, less than a dozen of them with real
tech experience, running XP without hitches.
0 Votes
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I love these Windows utopia posts...
storm14k 9th Sep 2009
I guess all these PC support companies just make money by twiddling their fingers while everyones systems just hums along with only minor problems. Yea right. All I need to do to find a Windows PC with problems is turn to the nearest person and say "let me see your PC". I have a guy that works with me that almost every day has someones laptop with him that he's been asked to fix.

Windows = Problems.
  • Flagged
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Maybe he's not too bright a guy?
AllKnowingAllSeeing Updated - 9th Sep 2009
If he's setting them up, maybe thats the reason they keep comming back?

I still have yet to see all these tons of problems the ABMer's claim all their "friends" or "co-workers" have.

The only time I see any problems with a Windows machines is when someone gets one with crapware loaded at the factory (or with HP Digital Imaging Software).

Once removed, I never see their computers again.

I also get a person or two with Linux problems, and OSx issues, which isn't good considering the small percentage of users they have compared to Windows users.

So, Windows=No Real Problems.

No stories, just facts.
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And then...
M.R. Kennedy 9th Sep 2009
...there are the volumes of "Windows distopia" posts that you make.

Seems they balance out pretty well.
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A Major Problem with Windows is the Price
trentreviso 11th Sep 2009
Amazon sells Windows XP Home Edition for just $225 apiece. The cost of installation on your 20 computers would be $4,500.

When it comes time to upgrade those computers to Windows 7, an upgrade from XP to Windows 7 Home Edition will cost you $120 per machine, or another $2,400 for the 20 machines.

And, should one of those old machines break down and require a new motherboard or significant upgrade, a new copy of Windows 7 must be purchased. Windows licenses are not transferable across machines - and a new motherboard counts as a new machine! (And yes, I'm aware you can petition Microsoft for special dispensation from the sin of trying to upgrade your computer). Also, since you purchased the upgrade editions of Win 7, you must keep your old XP disks around forever, in case you ever need to re-install Windows 7. Lose that old XP disk, and your Windows 7 upgrade disk becomes a $120 coaster with a hole in it.

Ouch!!
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re: What are YOU talking about.
M.R. Kennedy 9th Sep 2009
And yet, you consistently push some form of Linux as the perfect OS for anyone, even non-professionals who don't have a clue as to what they're doing...
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Hit and Miss
Looks Confused 9th Sep 2009
The computers that my spouse and I use are not a problem at all. I rarely do anything other than the manual updates (which is a personal choice, automatic updates would probably work fine). We use WinXP without any of the Microsoft add on programs such as IE or Media Player, etc.

My children on the other hand...

I have to fix their computers all the time, even with anti-adware and anti-virus software. In a way its my own fault for not enforcing the use of limited user accounts over administrator accounts, but on the other hand, a lot of software doesn't run well on limited user accounts (and on the Home version, its particularly useless). So, not entirely my fault I guess.

Hans
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Pitch Windows 7 to Netbook Market
P. Douglas Updated - 9th Sep 2009
I think if MS was to encourage consumers to choose Win 7 over Win XP in the Netbook market (through ads, etc.) - and even have hardware manufacturers do the same, while they offer both OSs on low end systems - MS could do well.
and then moving up the chain. Remember, Chrome OS is
coming, and Windows is becoming less important every
month.

If Google would open a Win32 app store where they
could certify against Wine, or run them in the
cloud, that could remove a lot more barriers.
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MS lowering prices
Looks Confused 9th Sep 2009
I would agree, with some amount of caution. I have an Acer Aspire One that came with WinXP home. The only reason I bought it with XP was so I could get the six cell battery and the larger HDD. I've been pretty happy with this system, except for the stupidity surrounding the Intel 3D video support in X (which is almost all Intel's fault).

That said, I don't really see myself paying a premium for Win7. I still have an unused OEM copy of WinXP Pro for the next computer I get that I think needs it, or I'll put a copy of Linux on it (I'm thinking an ION based netbook here).

My mother asked me the other day what I thought about netbooks, I told her I was generally happy with them. What I forgot to tell her was that I had seen several *notebooks* for sale recently for 350 dollars, that would be a better choice for her. I don't see how Microsoft is going to demand a premium for the operating system software for a $350 notebook (when you can get Atom based netbooks for under $250). I can tell you that they are going to have to reach my mother's price point, not the other way around: She will stick with what she has, rather than paying one cent more than she thinks she has to (which will be whatever she has to pay for the absolute least expensive option available).

Regards,

Hans
Microsoft wants to think they can charge you full
price when the screens get bigger. That will not fly
for very long. Especially after Chrome OS is out.
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First, Windows general marketshare is around 92% - where it's been for decades. Apple took a bit of share away in the US, but worldwide, it's almost a negligable loss.

Linux has had virtually ZERO impact on desktop systems. Even in servers, where Linux has a much better shot, after making a significant impact, Windows has been slowly regaining lost ground.

And this was during the Vista period - the hardest time for Microsoft in a long time. Win7 is shaping up to be a big hit.

ChromeOS isn't even a real product yet and you're anticipating that it will have a huge impact when there's no good evidence that it will have any impact at all! I mean really - we've been down the 'Desktop consumer Linux' path over and over - and so far, no one has come up with a compelling case for it.

Your WINE arguments show the problem. You want (or need) for Microsoft to be gone. So you come up with 'equivalents' for Windows and voila - no one needs Micrsoft. Unfortunately (for you), that's not how it works in the real world. There are a ton of 'comfort' issues involved which you're dismissing - but you don't determine what the consumer wants; the consumer does.

They want familiar - they want support - they want to know they can install whatever they want to run and not have to deal with weird intermediary steps like WINE.

Seriously, go review the entire Linux on netbooks experience and learn from it. People ARE willing to pay a premium to use Windows - everyone who buys a Linux netbook and takes it back to get the Windows one - even if it costs $50 more - is telling you this. Every Mac user who pays hundreds more to get Mac tells you this.

Cheap isn't the only driving factor. Free isn't actually good enough. And on that, I point you at the famous Borland experiment in the 80s where they dropped the price of Turbo Pascal over the course of several months and found that sales increased as the price when down - until it hit a certain price - then sales DROPPED as the price continued to go lower. At a certain point, cheap stops being a bargain because people perceive a lack of quality or value.

Finally, the idea that the browser is the new desktop is entertaining, but it's just not going to fly (and sadly, it's clear that we'll have to sit through this over and over until the pundits get it right). There are real world limitations to what you can do over a wire (or worse, WiFi or WWAN) and the cost of remoting everything is far, far higher than the fans of Web 2.0 want to admit.

Besides, ChromeOS isn't really a browser OS - it's Linux cripped to run just one app (kinda). To get a sense of how well that works - check out Linpus or Moblin.

Sorry - rant all you wish, what you believe should happen is not what will.


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Oh, Please! Stop the FUD
pogson 9th Sep 2009
GNU/Linux runs on about 10% of PCs. M$ has admitted to 7%. Growth rate is huge.
  • Flagged
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Netbooks are a problem for MS
prof123 Updated - 11th Sep 2009
If you think of using MS Office, than the price of a netbook goes up drastically. The fact is that a Netbook is mainly used for web browsing. In this scenario, one can use Open Office or Google Apps for document editing and keep the price down.

Netbooks will cause MS to get less revenue and depress their stock even further. Cloud computing is on the horizon and even MS sees that (Azure platform). With ChromeOS, netbook will boot in two seconds and the whole experience will be better than on netbook runnin Windows. All this spells lower prices and more competition for MS. Time to sell MS shares...
Microsoft should worry about keeping their Windows OS on netbooks. The price of electronics, which includes computers, keeps going down. As it does, this put more and more pressure on the price of the operating system. A company like Google just might want to take advantage of this situation in the future and offer their operating system at a much cheaper price.

Ken McCormick
Webmaster
About Facts Net
install it and make Google the default search
engine, and have links to all of the Google
applications, email sign-up, etc.

Look for some serious price pressure on the OS,
starting with Netbooks and working up the chain.
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My Netbook runs Ubuntu and I am very happy with it. Although I also have a Laptop, I find myself using the Netbook more often than not while on the road.

OK, yeah, it's not suitable for everything (but then, what is?) but for what a Netbook is intended for Linux is ideal.

Before someone starts calling me a fan-boy for saying something nice about Linux, please note that I use and support many different operating systems: Windows (clients and servers), Macintosh, several Linux distros, UNIX (AIX and Solaris), and i5 (formerly OS/400).

Please note that (1) none of them are perfect, and (2) none of them are terrible ... they're just different tools for different jobs.

Just as you don't use a hammer to saw a board in two, if you simply choose the right OS for the task at hand then you won't have any troubles.

As always this is just my $0.02 USD and your opinion may vary.

Regards,
Jon
run applications in the cloud. Even Win32
applications.
Who cares about price. Windows runs terribly on most netbooks. And I have no idea why that is. The worst problem seems to be latency. It feels really, really slow. Apps seem to take forever to launch. Tasks that seem simple lag noticeably. My gut feeling is that people buying Windows netbooks are doing so because that's the only choice they are presented with.

I have replaced Windows with Ubuntu Netbook Remix on numerous netbooks and its just wonderfully pleasant to use compared with Windows. Friends of mine complained about all sorts of problems on their Windows netbooks. Buggy Wifi on Windows was the top complaint. UNR's dashboard is not perfect (some obscure bugs) but its quite pleasant to use. So much so that I also installed UNR on my home theater PC. And the networking in UNR 9.04 is awesome. It even tethers with my Treo 700p without hacking things up. Just add a Verizon account under "mobile broadband" and that's it. It automatically picks the best connection based on what's available. Windows seems unable to even connect to a simple open network reliably.

We've got those HP Mini Verizon editions at work and our people are consistently unable to get the wifi or mobile broadband working. It kinda defeats the whole purpose. I have no idea why they think they want windows on those machines. They need firefox, period. Its just silly. UNR 9.04 makes those machines a dream to use.
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Particularly for Vista users who are receiving the "Windows ME" treatment as Vista was a short lived OS and Win7 is just a cover over Vista.

I'm not saying Win7 is bad, it's just to darned expensive. I'm waiting to see how much the OEM copies are going to be as I build my own.
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Microsoft at its old games
apexwm 10th Sep 2009
Microsoft will keep the price as high as it can until it realizes a dent in its revenue. Right now, Microsoft is counting on Windows 7 to be a big hit, so it is not going to lower prices until it is forced to do so.

As for the comments on Linux, the one post about familiarity was right on. People are going to stay with what they already know. However, a lot of users will become frustrated when they try to get a netbook with Windows 7 and all of a sudden some apps will not work, that used to work in XP. A lot (not all) versions of Windows are vastly different, requiring users to repurchase new/upgraded software.

The issue is that nobody knows Linux. Some may take the time to learn it. But just as other posts mentioned, you would either have to use Wine to run Windows apps or find Linux equivalents. This requires a lot of work and patience. I have done just this, and migrated from Windows to Linux. I couldn't be happier. However it took quite a bit of work and patience. I've documented everything here:

http://members.apex-internet.com/sa/windowslinux
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many os's
Eduardo_z 10th Sep 2009
Pretty soon Microsoft is going to have 4 different os's on netbooks: XP, W7 Starter, and W7 Home Premium on x86, and CE on ARM. Sounds like a rather confusing situation. Of course, on the Linux side it will be even worse: regular desktop Ubuntu, Xandros and maybe one or two more, Ubuntu remix, Moblin on various Linuxes, Android, and eventually Chrome. It should be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

I wonder what CE on ARM is going to cost. XP is $15, and CE is quite inferior. Will CE be $5 a copy? And what is that going to do to Microsoft's profits if it really catches on?

Even if my netbook comes with Windows XP, I'm still almost certainly going to install Gentoo Linux on it. I have it on my C2Q6600 and my PIV laptop with 256MB of RAM, and it runs great on both, though they are obviously configured differently. I can't wait to see how it runs on a nice little netbook. I don't need antivirus, antispyware, a disk defragmenter... and it's streamlined to my wishes.
I think that goofball from microsoft is on crack.
If it wasn't for just a couple of programs, not of my pc's would be contaminated with microsoft products.
Just DL and install Ubuntu and don't look back.
Man, it's free and it doesn't lock up or hickup like XP.

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RE: Wall Street still worrying over netbook impact on Microsoft's Windows 7 sales
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RE: Wall Street still worrying over netbook impact on Microsoft's Windows 7 sales
makrekdw66-24353629694293760060732252096446 Updated - 11th Nov
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