Why no front-facing camera on first Windows Phones from Nokia?

By | October 26, 2011, 10:22am PDT

Summary: There are no front-facing cameras on Nokia’s first two Windows Phone handsets. Some users are asking why.

As I noted in a Nokia World blog post from earlier today, there are no front-facing cameras on the Lumia 800 or 710 Windows Phones.

The big question among a number of attendees here is: Why not?

The answer, according to at least some Nokia representatives with whom I spoke at the show, is there just wasn’t enough time to add it to the handsets.

Nokia has been hustling for months, trying to get its first Windows Phone out the door before the end of 2011. Even though Nokia knew Microsoft was in the midst of acquiring Skype — making the need for a front-facing camera all the more urgent, one might think — there were only so many things Nokia could pull off if it wanted to get its first phones out this year, representatives from the company said. (There were only so many things the company could manage in a relatively short amount of time is how one Nokia rep explained it.)

I’ve asked via the official channels whether there is a corporate statement from Nokia as to why there isn’t a front-facing camera, but no word back yet.

Does the omission from the Nokia Lumia 800 and 710  mean there won’t be a front-facing camera on Windows Phones that are part of Nokia’s “portfolio” of products due in the U.S. in early 2012? No. But it also doesn’t guarantee that any of the next Nokia Windows Phones will include those cameras, either.

See also: Nokia’s first Windows Phones: What’s there, what’s notPhotos: The Nokia World sales pitchNokia World: Live blogging the Day 1 keynoteNokia’s new Lumia 800, 710 Windows phonesFor outside the U. S. for now | CNET: Nokia’s Windows Phone push

Given that the N9, which is very similar to the Lumia (except that it runs MeeGo) does have a front-facing camera located at the bottom of the phone), I wondered if there might be something in the Windows Phone operating system that hindered Nokia’s inclusion of a front-facing camera. That doesn’t seem to be the case, however — especially given the new HTC Titan and Radar Windows Phones do include front-facing cameras.

Neither Nokia nor Microsoft officials are sharing dates as to when the first Nokia Windows Phones will launch in the U.S., beyond saying it will be in early 2012. Nokia has said there will be CDMA and LTE Windows Phones next year but also won’t provide more specific dates or names of which carriers will be offering these phones here in the U.S.

A Nokia spokesperson did say that there are reason Nokia decided to roll out its first Windows Phones in Europe and Asia before the U.S. Those reasons include brand preference (i.e., Nokia has more loyalty/brand recognition in those areas than the U.S.); language support; and giving priority to “markets where we expect to be popular”).

I’ve also been wondering whether Nokia is planning its U.S. launch around Tango, the next version of the Windows Phone operating system that comes after “Mango.” No one from Microsoft — not even Windows Phone Corporate Vice President Joe Belfiore (pictured above) — is publicly acknowledging the Tango codename (beyond drinking Tango soda here at Nokia World). But given that Tango 2 supposedly will help Microsoft and Nokia get the Windows Phone OS on lower-priced handsets, perhaps there’s a connection there and Nokia is waiting for Tango before launching its full U.S. line-up….

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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@everyone who is disappointed with Lumia 710 and 800 not having FFC
subzero9975 Updated - 14th Mar
Not long now until the Lumia 900 is released which does have a front facing camera. Unfortunately still doesn't have more storage!

Despite me being quite loyal to both Nokia and Microsoft for years I now decided to buy the new Sony Xperia S which does have a 1.3mp front facing camera, HDMI, 12.1mp Camera, 32gb storage, 1024 ram and loads of other stuff. Super fast!!!
I could care less about the front facing camera. They did have plenty of time to add a 32GB model. That is something that is lacking and I am disappointed about it.
@mike2k Yes Front face is important and who cares of 32GB troll has dont you know it comes with Skydrive which gives you 25GB store anything on it. having front face camera important and we know your a outdated in mobile technology if you do not care of FF camera.
@obamasucks2011
I made a simple opinionated response and doesn't require your pathetic bashing. "I" don't need the FFC, so I don't care about it. I dont want to fill up my skydive with my 25GB of music, so i want that space locally. I have my reasons, post yours and leave your bashing at the door

And by the way, it's you're not your. Who is "we" anyway?
@obamasucks2011 File size limits make Skydrive a poor substitute for 32g of built-in storage.
@obamasucks2011 It matters when carriers are over the place are getting rid of unlimited data plans and putting on overages when you go over 2 gigs. It also matters when you go through areas of poor signal, high usage or want your battery to last longer (play content locally instead of trying to stream it).
@obamasucks2011 :

Wow! If Apple said you buy an 8Gb phone with 25 Gb in the cloud, people would say... but that needs Internet connectivity and a data plan.

But if MS does it, it's wonderful... keep trolling....
@obamasucks2011 Perhaps this smart phone is attached that do not understand us. Definitely want to get out of the box and therefore opted for this alternative.
http://www.zuarticles.com
@obamasucks2011 That Fujitsu IS12T really set my expectations high for 2nd gen Windows Phones with 32GB storage and a 13MP camera. How come none of the other phones announced since then have those kind of specs? And why isn't the Fujitsu phone being released in more places?
@mike2k ..you have a good point about the 32 GB model. The 800 is a high end device, I don't see any reason why Nokia couldn't offer the extra capacity. (heck the iphone offers up to 64 gigs)
@mike2k Although I don't use Facetime much on my iPhone 4, the front camera is quite useful for apps like WeReward where you get paid for submitting a picture of yourself at certain businesses. The omission of front camera on these Microkia phones is odd, in this day and age.
@mike2k
Agree. At least they could have provided a slot for a micro SD card - then the cost of adding storage would be entirely the user's choice.
@mike2k
Agree. At least they could have provided a slot for a micro SD card - then the cost of adding storage would be entirely the user's choice.
That Fujitsu IS12T really set my expectations high for 2nd gen Windows Phones with 32GB storage and a 13MP camera. How come none of the other phones announced since then have those kind of specs? And why isn't the Fujitsu phone being released in more places?
Same here. I personally couldn't care less about a front facing camera (who the heck wants to Skype on such a small screen?) but I definitely know people who were anxiously awaiting Nokia's announcement and are having an absolute meltdown about this right now.
@blueyonder64
I've not tried Skype on a phone, but I've tried FaceTime. It actually works rather well on a small screen. I expect that Skype would be similar.
Oh, and very good point about the N9 having a FFC. Curious that they could include it on what is essentially an identical chassis but be forced to leave it out of this particular model. Doesn't really make sense.
@blueyonder64 No, it isn't. 800 has the Search button in the place of the N9's FF camera. Moving it to a different place would require more work and the schedule clearly didn't allow it.
Not long now until the Lumia 900 is released which does have a front facing camera. Unfortunately still doesn't have more storage!

Despite me being quite loyal to both Nokia and Microsoft for years I now decided to buy the new Sony Xperia S which does have a 1.3mp front facing camera, HDMI, 12.1mp Camera, 32gb storage, 1024 ram and loads of other stuff. Super fast!!!
0 Votes
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The front facing camera feature is extremely popular for social networking purposes -- especially in Asia, and among women.

A main principle in designing consumer products should be to try to see and understand the product from perspectives different from one's own.
@voltrarian: "A main principle in designing consumer products..."

Except that the discussion is from someone consuming consumer products. Big difference, and totally academic.
@voltrarian FF cameras were common in Europe 5 years ago and were totally unsuccessfull. Even quite cheap Nokias had them, for example. Sure, one of the reasons were prices of this 3G service, demanded by operators. Perhaps Apple iFace, perhaps Skype have resurrected elsewhere, but there's remaing scepticism about their sense in Europe.
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RE: Why no front-facing camera on first Windows Phones from Nokia?
LoverockDavidson_-24231404894599612871915491754222 26th Oct
No big deal with the front facing camera. Just don't get one of these two Nokia phones if you need the FFC that bad. Most people don't even use it so its not like there is a real loss there.
They are missing the Gyro also. Lumix 800 is a HERO device but for Gen. 1 of Windows Phone 7 hardware
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both nokia phones are a FAIL
octechnophile 26th Oct
both of these offerings for all the hype and press were a failure. they'll miss the US holiday season and with no carrier announcements plus no front camera, can't expect any type of large market push. $1 billion for these two phones?
@octechnophile I forgotten the US made up 100 % of the planet's land mass.
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the camera will be added via a software update
justanothertroll4everyoung 26th Oct
the camera will be added via a software update
haha.. wink
@justanothertroll4everyoung

No an after market periscope prism that smaps on.
0 Votes
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The next version is wonderful.
@curph Original iPhone and iOS 1.0 were feature deficient. Why do you hold MSFT to a higher standard then your beloved Apple?
0 Votes
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FFC is important now
normcf 26th Oct
@MSFTWorshipper If this microsoft phone had come out at the same time as the original iphone, there would be no complaints about the missing FFC, but now that this phone must compete with the current iphone it is a feature that buyers will add into their comparisons.
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What I want:
x I'm tc 26th Oct
A Nokia with a front facing camera that will run on Sprint.

Then I will be happy.
bring it to the US or it will sit in the stock room collecting dust.
@Johnny Vegas
Because people in Europe don't have any money to buy a new phone? what's your point?
MS is seriously concerned about fragmentation, so I think we'll be seeing Single-Core, 480*800 WP handsets until WP8.

My guess is that WP8 will bring Multi-Core (dual & quad) processors and high resolution displays (maybe 576*960, or even 768*1280).

The lack of NFC and a front facing camera is purely a schedule constraint. Nokia said the US would be receiving a 'portfolio' of devices. It's likely that this portfolio could be a '711' and '801' which include such features (here's to dreaming).
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The N9 Runs Linux
ldo17 26th Oct
Linux already supports most of the hardware in the world. It's different for Windows--you have to go to the different manufacturers' websites to look for drivers to download, and then you find an incompatibility with something else that you also have to download an update for, and so on back and forth. So it takes a lot longer to do hardware support for Windows, which is why it's always behind Linux-based systems like Meego and Android. Yes, even dead-end Meego can still run rings around Windows Phone.
upgraded to mango or will be shortly and 60% or mor of android phones never will get ice cream or probably even froyo or anything else they didnt ship with. Even googles flagship galaxy one is being ditched.
0 Votes
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Mango? Who Cares?
ldo17 27th Oct
@Johnny Vegas So what? Mango still won't give you that front-facing camera on your Lumia 800, which Linux running on the N9 does support.
@ldo17

Cool story bro. Interesting parallel universe you live in.

In our world, Windows supports everything and Linux, that little hobbyists' OS requires you to go to manufacturers and forums of elitist jerks (not the WoW ones) for any modern driver, which you'll be lucky to find anyway.

Meego? I needed a good laugh - thank you.
@tonymcs@... Conveniently forgetting the very point of this posting, which is why Windows Phone running on virtually identical hardware to Linux cannot support a front-facing camera which Linux does.

Stop being in denial and grow up.
@tonymcs@... +1
rdawson@... Then why does it suffer from the same old problems of lack of drivers, regular reboots, "windows rot" needing periodic reinstallation, registry corruption and drive-letter limitations? Face it, Windows is Windows--Microsoft simply cannot get away from that whole registry/drive-letter mindset.
@ldo17

WP7 does support the front facing camera. See the LG and HTC offerings in a couple of weeks which both have it. Just because Nokia couldn't get all the hardware ready in time doesn't mean that Windows doesn't support it.

Sorry for feeding the troll. Now he'll never leave.
@ldo17 have you ever actually installed a copy of Windows?
@WixosTrix Now that's going to be a fun thing, isn't it? Windows is notorious for continual "rot", eventually requiring reinstallation to cure it--until it develops again. Nobody has had a Windows phone long enough to report this, but how are they going to deal with it when it finally happens? Will they have to take it back to the shop? Or will they have to go through the usual dance of hunting around vendors' sites for drivers, only to find the model has been replaced with a newer one and the old driver is no longer available and they forgot to back up their previous download. That's going to be fun, isn't it?
@Ido17 You realize that Windows Phone 7 is nothing like Windows on the desktop, correct? Your assumptions are doing nothing but making look and sound foolish.

There are NO drivers in Windows Phone 7 that a user has to deal with. Why do you continue to bring this up as if it is an issue?
@ldo17 I can just picture the Nokia engineers trawling the web for drivers for the special purpose camera they're about to fit into their new mobile phone. "Dammit, that won't work, it's Wintel only, where's the ARM version?"
@DJL64 Think about it: if there's a better way to do it on Windows, why isn't it available to ordinary users? After all, they can benefit from it too. But there isn't.
0 Votes
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Re: The N9 Runs Linux
ldo17 27th Oct
And here's another hardware feature present in the Linux-running N9, but not in the 800: NFC. Yet more proof that Windows makes support for innovative new hardware so much harder than Linux.
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On the other hand...
wright_is 26th Oct
My first Nokia with a front facing camera was in 2001. Since then, every phone exept my iPhone 3GS and my htc Mozart has had a front facing camera.

And in all that time, I've never made a video call or used Skype etc. The same with cameras on the phone, I've used the camera for making a "real" photo, as opposed to testing it, when I get a new phone, about half a dozen times since 2001.

In fact, having a camera on the phone was a hinderance, for a long time, because I would have to leave the phone with security every time I went on site at a customer, pretty much negating the need to have a phone...

I can't say it bothered me, one was or the other, that the Nokia was missing the front camera - I think, with desktop Skype, I've used the video to talk to 3 people over the years and then only occassionally.

Likewise, I don't know anybody around here who actually uses video calling, be it Skype, 3G video call on non-Apple phones, FaceTime etc.

As to the Noklia itself, I can't say there is anything on paper that makes me want to trade in my Mozart for it.
I might be getting one a tad later on.. lot of my friends are like cattle sheep following each other buying overpriced Apple stuff as a sort of fashion item... tbh.. all that shows to anyone above average intellect is that most of those people cannot think for themselves and just go with the flow (most don't even know the specs or what they are buying ... as long as they can uphold that social cool status by being "in" with it)...

So yes, I heard lots of good things about WP7 over the last few months...

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