Will Windows 8 on ARM be an OEM-only product?

By | January 17, 2012, 12:28pm PST

Summary: Will Windows 8 on ARM be available only as something preloaded on new tablets and PCs from selected vendors? We still don’t know for sure.

All the recent back and forth over Microsoft disallowing the installation of other operating systems on Windows 8 ARM tablets seems to me to be obscuring a bigger and more interesting question: Will Windows 8 on ARM be an OEM-only product?

In other words, unlike the situation with Windows 8 for Intel — where testers and users can download Windows 8 bits and install them on tablets and PCs of their choice — will Windows 8 on ARM be locked to specific hardware?

I know some Microsoft watchers are assuming this will be the case, but Microsoft has not said anything on this officially. I re-asked today just to be sure, and was told by a spokesperson: “All we’ve said is the ARM based partners we’re working with – we haven’t yet talked about the go to market plans.”

(Some may recall an Intel exec blabbed a while back and said that those announced ARM partners — Nvidia, Qualcomm and Texas Instruments — were each building their own custom version of Windows for their processors and that these various versions wouldn’t be compatible with one another. Microsoft execs denied that Intel’s portrayal of the situation was accurate but never said specifically why it was wrong.)

The fact that Microsoft didn’t release a Windows 8 on ARM developer preview build back in September alongside the Windows 8 on Intel one doesn’t necessarily mean that the ARM version is OEM-only. It might just be lagging the Intel build in the development cycle. Nor does the fact that Microsoft is continuing to ban its ARM partners from allowing anyone to play with prototype Windows 8 ARM tablets, as they did just recently at the Consumer Electronics Show. That just could be the Windows division’s hope to maintain some element of secrecy/big reveal as the Windows 8 PR momentum builds.

Microsoft officials have mostly remained mum as to whether Microsoft plans to roll out Windows 8 on Intel and Windows 8 on ARM simultaneously. (I noticed one company official did tell Computerworld last week that this is, indeed, the game plan.) But that hasn’t stopped various OEM partners from telling the world that they plan to have Windows 8 on ARM tablets on store shelves later this year.

Some would argue Microsoft has to make Windows 8 on ARM an OEM-only products, since this is the first time the Softies will be offering commercially a Windows client on ARM. There aren’t existing Windows-based ARM tablets and PCs on which users should be able to just install the new Windows 8 bits, say those in this school.

But there are other ARM tablets out there where testers and users could try to install the Windows 8 on ARM bits, others argue. What about the Blackberry Playbook? HP TouchPad? Samsung Galaxy Tab? Heck, even the iPad? The question is whether Microsoft is trying to block them from doing so to head off potential reports of poor user experiences. Remember: Control is the watchword when it comes to Windows 8, in terms of everything from how information is shared, to how, when and where the product is demonstrated.

Microsoft’s ban on allowing testers and users to install Linux on the coming generation of Windows 8 ARM devices isn’t the only place where Windows 8 on Intel and Windows 8 on ARM diverge. As Rafael Rivera noted on WithinWindows this week, Microsoft isn’t requiring Windows 8 ARM PCs resume in two seconds or less — unlike the case for Intel-compatible Windows 8 PCs.

What’s your take? Will Windows 8 on ARM be available only preloaded on select tablets — and later, maybe in 2013 on ARM-based laptops? Should it be?

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Will Windows 8 on ARM be an OEM-only product?
non-biased 19th Jan
@rob.sharp@... You could have simple said I love all things MS and hate everything else. I would have been just as relevant.
User experience is king. Trying to appease all critics just ends up with a mess.
@dagamer34 Yes, I did see that pattern in "Start Page" blog on B8 weblog. Hundreds of users and professionals were against a compulsory replacement of start menu with start page (at least on desktops) but MS side stayed at their position. I am sure this will be one of the most important critics W8 will receive (along with the limitations of Metro apps i.e. HTML+WinRT).

I thought the main purpose of that blog is to get early feedback and use that to correct things. But now I tend to think it has been a marketing attempt.
@wmac1 - blog comment sections are hardly representative polls. Lots of us love the new Start screen, but unhappy people usually post more.
@wmac1 They already fixed that last part.. the new Metro/WinRT architecture diagrams show HTML+Javascript, C#, and C/C++ as interfaces to WinRT. I suspect that's still all .NET-style managed code, not native, but it does suggest that there's been some positive feedback over the notion of all Metro apps forever being just HTML + CSS + Javascript.
@dave: WinRT is all native code. It's just exposed to the rest of the OS via ECMA-335 (i.e. CLR-compatible) metadata rather than via Microsoft's COFF/CEF binary format or COM's IDL.

The ECMA-335 metadata is FAR more descriptive than older metadata formats and has the added benefit of permitting .NET tools to interface directly with and correctly marshal data types back and forth with full fidelity.
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@dagamer34

Agreed, i'd rather them keep the experience good across the board! The last thing I want to see is people loading Win8 on hardware designed for a crappy OS like IOS or Android only to have them complain the experience sucked so they decided to switch back. Thats bad press for an OS that's lightyears ahead of the current crop of mobile Operating Systems...Windows Phone 7 excluded.
@rob.sharp@... You could have simple said I love all things MS and hate everything else. I would have been just as relevant.
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eevry ARM system is unique; different numbers of different ARM cores with different integrated GPUs with different glue between them - it's an utterly different style of CPU and platform development from x86. That means each OEM or ARM platform supplier will have to work with Microsoft to get Win 8 on ARM working on their platform. That doesn't mean there couldn't be a 'fat binary' type installer that would target multiple tablets, but I can't see the PC makers selling naked tablets without an OS, so new tablets will come with Windows on already. And given that old tablets won't meet the logo specs - no physical Windows button for a start - I can't see an OEM like HP or RIM working with Microsoft to make Windows 8 run well on their old kit and I can't see Microsoft doing that work themselves (they don't have the internal expertise, necessarily). Also, the majority of these tablets will, I think, have SIMs and 3G and we're into carrier ecosystem sales. Think about how low a % Microsoft always says PC upgrades are of Windows sales; it's going to be a far lower % that would consider ARM tablet upgrades. It's not core enough to spend that much time on, for an inferior experience. On the other hand, there's bound to be a skunworks build of it, for comparison internally if nothing else.
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Contributr
Good points
Mary Jo Foley 17th Jan
What do you think will happen if/when ARM-based laptops/PCs are available, say in 2013 or so? Do you think MS can/will change its tune? MJ
@Mary Jo Foley - tablet vs. laptop vs. desktop vs. TV vs. etc. are just form factor considerations.

There is no standard ARM-device architecture as there is for PC's.

Therefore, all ARM devices are vendor specific and highly specialized compared to PC's.

An interesting question is "will ARM device, OS & SW vendors eventually get tired of maintaining a broad range of proprietary device architectures and instead get together and bash out a standard architecture as the PC industry did?"
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@Mary Jo Foley The form factor doesn't change the integration/support issues; ARM is such a modular architecture compared to x86. Maybe it becomes a live issue for Windows 9 ARM wink I'm thinking back to the earliest comments about the differences in functionality with ARM/x86 Windows, about the ongoing question about the desktop on ARM and the way x86 apps will NOT run on ARM and I'm mostly concluding that ARM Windows is a different approach and a different set of functionality. More TV-like, less tinker-friendly.
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@Mary Jo Foley
I think not much of a problem here. They now have notebooks (specilized PCs) with Windows 7 Starter. Having an (specialized PC) Arms Tablet is no difference, to me.
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ARM based PC's and laptops
johnfenjackson@... Updated - 18th Jan
@Mary Jo Foley ... that's the scenario EB fails to consider in the 'to-ing and fro-ing'.

M$ would like to slide in:
1. Locked-down W8 METRO secure on ARM tablet.
2. 'Choice' of security and METRO on INTEL PC/laptop.

However as ARM grows in power and METRO is accepted then the slide will end at ... locked-down W8 secure METRO on the majority of computers ... and they will be able to write 'converging and simplifying to the prevailing standard model of Windows on ARM in Windows 9'.

Then we will be confronted with the '30% tax' on all digital media and the transition to Apple's model will be complete. Yuk.

The end-game consumer ecosystems will be:

A. AMAZON and Android (Fire).
B. Apple and OSX (AIR).
C. M$ and ARM-METRO.

Choose your silo.

It begins to look like Windows 8 desktop will be the last of what people are calling the 'PC era' OS's. Pity.
@Mary Jo Foley
There is one critical factor to look for here: Remember CHRP? The Common Hardware Reference Platform that was going to allow us to build our own PowerPC-based PCs as easily as we do with x86 stuff? Looked pretty promising but it died when Steve Jobs killed the licensing of Mac OS almost immediately upon his return to Apple. The other OSes on offer (OS/2 Warp, BeOS, Linux, and even NT) weren't enough to keep up enough interest and the initiative fell apart.

Until we have something like CHRP to act as a core platform for ARM-based systems, producing much of anything would be very tough for anyone not operating at the OEM level.
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@epobirs I remember CHRP, I mean PPCP, I mean CHRP pretty well... I designed a CHRP machine (PIOS One) back in the day.

Thing is, in modern times, there's no reason to define an architecture at the bit level. Even CHRP really didn't... it had some hard register definitions, but handled everything else in Open Firmware. UEFI has a similar byte code, to allow architecture independent drivers in flash.

But even better, look at Windows itself. Windows since NT has had its own Hardware Abstraction Layer (HAL). That's why Windows runs on PCs, why it ran on PowerPC, Alpha, MIPS, etc. (sure, they needed ISA ported code, but they did not need special versions of the OS written for the specifics of each machine). Look at PowerPC... Apple wouldn't put MacOS on early PPC machines, or PReP standard machines. They could have, but they figured they could get all the Mac-like hardware they wanted put into CHRP, and not have to bother.

But Windows has run on non-PC architecture x86 machines for a long time. Even going from classic PC to ACPI PCs was moving to a different HAL only.

The issue today on ARM is that everyone's got their own custom bootloader, and drivers in there specific to that piece of hardware. This complicates community-developed Android releases, and makes it really difficult to put other OSs on existing ARM machines from any vendor (HP, RIM, Apple, etc). Moving to a standard bootloader like UEFI with an actual HAL to support all the on-device specifics (at least at a basic level) would allow a one-size-fits-all version of each ARM-based OS to run. Which may be one of things Microsoft is worried about.. they don't want to make it easy for Windows tablet users to get frustrated and just load Android.

As for the other OSs on CHRP, most never existed. Power Computing worked with Be to get BeOS booting on pre-CHRP Mac Clone hardware, but Be never did a CHRP version. IBM may have had alpha version of OS/2 on CHRP, but there was never a release. Linux in 1997 wasn't the Linux of today, but even if it was, there's still only so much of a market for desktop Linux. So yeah, the whole open PowerPC thing depended on MacOS.
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@epobirs .. I agree for the most part
thx-1138_@... Updated - 18th Jan
.. and this may well spell trouble, long-term, for Redmond if they think a lock-out of the OEM ecosystem works while simultaneously trying to force feed a new OS platform to app' developers. If either of those groups gets a fractional scent the W8 on ARM platform is tanking ... be prepared for the biggest exodus since ... well ... The Exodus, from the platform and an industry backlash against Redmond. (I'd guess the Vista kerfuffle will look awful tame in comparison).

Worse still, if the platform bunks and nose dives - sales-wise, then all the sabre rattling from Redmond could ultimately result in MS falling on its own sword. Therein is the real issue: MS could possibly afford to gamble like this if they had an innovative, ground-breaking, new, industry leading offering to sell the masses (a la iOS & iPhones, OSX & Mac). Personally, i can't see W8 on a locked-down ARM tablet (...or .. heaven forbid .. a desktop PC) being any of those things.

What i do predict, in regards W8 on locked-down ARM tablets, is a crash 'n burn. If Redmond believes it can run rough shod against the toughest law in the land ... no, not the DoJ ... the court of public opinion, than they are in for a h3ck of a fright, come RTM time for the first ARM/W8 Tablets.

CONCLUSION:

W8 on locked-down ARM tablets: big gamble

W8 & locked-down UEFI on desktops: recipe for major disaster at Redmond

(n.b all IMHO .. of course)
@mary.branscombe
Yeah, just look at the ARM's CPUs and all the variations:

You can have different cores like ARMv6 or ARMv7, and then with VFP v2,v3, (v4 this year), sometime with or without VFP-Lite... *PLUS* with or without NEON.

Fun time to support them all...
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@Samic plus Nvidia/Imagination/PowerVR/MALI/Other GPU, plus shadow core/big-little, plus integration plus a few other variations. Broadcom, ST-Ericsson, Qualcom etc will be major but differentiated platforms, let alone all the roll-their-owns...
@Samic Yes, I think ARM has created a huge mess here. Previously we had x86 and x64 to support where each of those two families had almost same instruction sets and compatible binaries. Even for x86 and x64 we had separate Windows DVDs. Same here we need separate Windows copies and separate sets of drivers etc. I can say it is a huge mess.
Any thoughts on whether or not W8 will be able to be installed on an HP TouchPad?
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Contributr
Win 8 on HP TouchPad
Mary Jo Foley 17th Jan
Hi, as I noted above, if MS and partners ship Win 8 on ARM as an OEM-only product, they won't support Win 8 on an ARM-based TouchPad. But that said, we don't know for sure if that's the plan...

http://liliputing.com/2011/09/this-is-what-windows-8-looks-like-on-the-hp-touchpad-remote-desktop.html

Some users would love it if this were allowed/possible.

If it isn't (officially), maybe some will hack it to see. MJ
@Mary Jo Foley

Thankyou MJ. I am unsure how many TPs are "out there", but I suspect that it exceeds 300,000. That ought to make an interesting market for MS. Time will tell . . .
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@Mary Jo Foley the number of TouchPads is a drop in the ocean compared to the number of Windows 8 ARM tablets that will sell if this is a success (if it's not, upgrading out of data kit is irrelevant anyway). 300K units isn't a market, it's a rounding error.
@mary.branscombe

"300K units isn't a market, it's a rounding error."

I agree. Nonetheless, it might also be seen as a starting point - provided that it is commercially viable. It also would create a potential opportunity for HP to continue to build TPs but with W8 installed.
@Habiloso
I predict you will not be able to do that, or at best, it will run very poorly with not all peripherals supported. And if you are interested in that, first remember even if it win8arm ran perfectly, you will not be able to run windows legacy apps. They are starting over. Then I ask, what is the benefit you will get from running win8arm with "zero" apps, vs android, with 300K+ apps. You just like the familiar name microsoft? You like seeing a start button and an 'e' icon? You want to support MS and its attempts at locking consumers in to its proprietary non-standard ecosystem?
Windows hackers: have you looked into android, embedded linux, etc? I don't get the windows hacking thing. Plus it will surely be in violation of the EULA. (sorry for the rant, Habiloso)
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@willyampz
Riddle me this: They are writing software for other operating sysyems, as we speak. Why would it be sooooo hard to write software for its own OS????
I think it fair to assume that Windows8 for ARM will only be sold to OEM's and that OEM's will provide custom drivers etc., for the tablets they produce.

The PC architecture is pretty much standardized which allows anyone to buy off-the-shelf parts and construct a PC. This is, after all, how Michael Dell started his company!

ARM devices have no standard architecture, however. Every ARM device has one or more ARM cores, but has a myriad of component parts inside and outside its SOC core: audio, graphics, USB, bluetooth, networking & wifi, cellular, NFC, flash memory interfaces, etc.

And how each of those devices communicates with the system as a whole is entirely implementation dependent. Few ARM devices subscribe to the same interrupt mechanisms, DMA mechanisms, intra-device communications via I2C vs. shared memory mapping, etc.

i think it safe to assume that faced with this anarchy, Microsoft will develop the core OS exposing key integration points that the OEM's will then need to write device/model specific drivers for and will (hopefully) VERY carefully tune to ensure that Win8 runs as smoothly as possible.

As such, a given Win8 ARM device will largely be a vendor-specific one-off build.
Surely it's a given?

Show me one ARM based software product that isn't an OEM only solution. Of course it will be OEM only. It shouldn't be this way but that's how the ARM world works.
I don't see why this would need to be a retail product considering that its the first time on ARM and no approved devices currently exist or way to get the bits for Windows 8 on ARM to install on it if they did. Its possible the only form of retail upgrades that will be available for Windows 8 on ARM are Anytime Upgrades. That is if Microsoft makes available the same SKU strategy as x86 on ARM.

Then again, going back to Windows XP Professional x64 which was Microsoft's first main stream 64 bit desktop operating system, which was Intel only. Microsoft might make Windows 8 on ARM OEM's bundle only Windows 8 Ultimate.

For simplification, Microsoft might make the retail/OEM/Volume License disc have ARM code for reinstallation. So if you do buy an ARM PC, you can buy a retail license and use the disc to reinstall it.

I still believe that Windows 9 will be the first off the shelf retail copy of Windows that will be available with ARM code.
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RE: Will Windows 8 on ARM be an OEM-only product?
neil.postlethwaite@... 17th Jan
It would be a huge wheeze, if there was a retail SKU 'Windows 8 for iPad' wink
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I can't say anything about Intel x86 based devices: laptop/tablet hybrids or tablets.
But for ARM, it shouldn't be this way at all, take iOS for example, you can update the OS on your device if you bought the hardware 1 or 2 years before today, this should be the same for Windows 8 on ARM, minor updates like Windows 8.1, 8.2, etc should be upgraded by synching your Windows 8 tablet with a PC with Windows 7 or previous OS.
This should be granted for free until Windows releases a major update (like Windows 9 or Windows 10) where you would probably need to pay to get an upgrade.
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No surprise there.
Zogg 17th Jan
@Gabriel Hernandez
"take iOS for example, you can update the OS on your device if you bought the hardware 1 or 2 years before today,"

But doesn't Apple both design the hardware and write iOS? Which makes Apple's job a straightforward one because it can implement its own standard.

"this should be the same for Windows 8 on ARM, minor updates like Windows 8.1, 8.2, etc should be upgraded by synching your Windows 8 tablet with a PC with Windows 7 or previous OS."

Well, if MS designed and built its own hardware too, I suppose it could...
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@Gabriel Hernandez upgrades going forward on a device purchased with Windows 8 are completely different from upgrading a device that came with another OS...
MS has just required that all its OEM partners install ARM Win8 in such a way that removing it would brick the device. So would you expect that a "user installation" of ARM Win8 would also be a "one way trip"? And if not, what would be the point of demanding it of the OEMs?
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Sigh... Really MJ? Again with the MS
Johnny Vegas Updated - 17th Jan
We know you certainly know better. They only care about secure boot. Any W8 arm device oem can enable secure booting of as many linux or any other alternate os's as they want. And it will be apparent for everyone to see exactly how many of those non competitive os's customers demand. That out of the way, MS gives todays W7 to oems to build "custom" versions for their hardware. You also already know that and know that that also is nothing new. And that these "custom" versions are incompatible with other oems hardware. That doesnt mean that apps that run on these custom windows versions wont run on other oems custom versions. It's incompatibility only at the hardware driver level. MS could have forced a common model on the oems for arm systems and shipped retail versions with generic drivers and driver replacement like the pc ecosystem works but i doubt that would have been ready in the same time frame. Nor is it worth it because again, like the non-ban, this is a non-issue. 0.0001% will care. And arm windows is likely to go the way of mips/alpha/ppc/itanium windows before it after about the same life span. Intel is getting into the mobile game in a big way, and that means chips that crush arm on both perf and power consumption. ARM's free ride has been fun for it but its over and they are now on the path to amd land, competing only on price and not very well.
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drivers.

I really doubt that you'll see ARM platform drivers on Windows Update. It's more likely that whatever drivers needed for whatever device is sold will be created by the OEM in close ties to the ARM chip vendor, and neither one will likely publish drivers to the general public. Same for Microsoft. Why, you may ask? I would bet this boils down to Microsoft's dealings with ARM in the past. All of Microsoft's ARM stuff comes from a shared-source platform for Windows Embedded, and the whole reason they went that route for ARM is to give OEM's control over full device optimization. When the development code for Windows Embedded for ARM is handed over to an OEM, the OEM received some intellectual property rights because of the customizations that they make. Microsoft doesn't consider it their property anymore, beyond some initial copyrights for the source code. The compiled code is separate. If you look at their lack of dealings with Windows Mobile ROM's, they have always claimed that ROM's are the phone OEM's property, so Microsoft themselves aren't in a position to go after groups like xda-devs. Now, I would bet that a similar licensing scheme will play a part in the ARM versions of Windows Client, even though it isn't a single-purpose device like Windows Embedded licensing requires (you could still lump it in to a "media consumption tablet" profile which is not much different from the set-top box profile that they already have for Windows Embedded). With the case of Windows Embedded, an OEM is supposed to create a "single-purpose DEVICE", however, the new WinQual docs say that Microsoft prefers that Windows 8 be installed on computers that act more like devices....Also, an Embedded OEM can remove Windows Update from Windows Embedded because a single-purpose device doesn't necessarily need updates, either for software....or drivers.

See? I was getting somewhere with that....
Years ago, I replaced a Jornada handheld WinCE PC with a Jornada 820 only to find out that it was neither MIPS nor ARM but what was called a StrongARM. That was the least used CPU and had almost no apps on the open market, specially on ZDNet's Download.Com. The commercial software was not developed for my unit. It became a very expensive paperweight.

Now, Windows 8 for ARM will be fractured because each OEM will have to specialize their version of Win8 for their model of ARM. Will the software confusion be repeated or solve? Or will it be like Android where each OEM be setting up their own Win8 App Store good only for their own products? Or will Microsoft require that some kind of continuity between brands?

Paul
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RE: Will Windows 8 on ARM be an OEM-only product?
neil.postlethwaite@... Updated - 18th Jan
@pfyearwood
Not sure what you are on about, StrongARM was a later much faster, backward compatible, processor with ARM, produced by Intel ARM license holding division who later sold the line to Marvel.


Widely used in Compaq/HP iPaq, and Dell AXIM's. Indeed My Dell AXIM x50v happily still runs WinMo 5 Tom Tom Sat Nav out of the box, albeit with a bit oldish maps.

Perhaps the issue was your Jordana's were were outdated junk, as they pretty much predated iPaq, and ran crummy old versions of WinCE.
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It became Xscale first
Joe_Raby Updated - 18th Jan
@neil.postlethwaite@...

....before Intel sold it off to Marvell.
A real move for Microsoft on the tablet device would be to target the lower end market of "cheap" tablets with ARM processors and a WinRT only version with mandatory no support for older version drivers (and non signed). This maximize de user experience, give a compeling 'data consuming' product and reduce to a minumun for that given device the chance of 'wierd' Windows errors. Also the trimmed capability would allow Microsoft to layer the OS licencing model, something that the should be very worry about.
Also in this trimmed version the Desktop will be there anyway, just to get to some things in the familiar way; specially files.
I don't see in the near future a custom built PC on ARM running a standard full version of Windows 8. Or if so, Microsoft would not allow users buy the Lower end devices and then reinstall the full version on it (as all do with the current starter version, although this is not a fair comparison). That would be the cause for the lock in mechanism.
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Contributr
I am fairly confident Windows 8 on ARM will be OEM specific and provided. Partially for the reasons listed above, chief among them that ARM solutions are not consistent.

More importantly, Windows 8 on ARM will be a firmware flash, and MSFT will not leave that (and potential bricking) up to the end-user.
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wmac1 18th Jan
M.J. you should have become a lawyer or detective happy

But on a serious note, I don't think the ARM based windows has large number of drivers (like x86 version) so that we can install it on just every ARM tablet or phone we see.

In addition ARM devices use different architectures which are not necessarily binary compatible. So yes, in my opinion hardware producers need to recompile or build their own version. Intel is somewhat correct in mentioning that.
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I have the following expectations/wish - I want to have full fledged Windows 8 on my home desktop (custom gaming rig) and work laptop (preferably 13' - 14' convertible ultrabook with touch screen. Then I want to have a closed windows 8 platform variation on my mobile phone (around 4') and my tablet (8'-10') - no desktop there, no access to files, pictures and other media managed by Zune. Basically the same as current Windows Phone 7.5. I dont need my mobile and tablet to act as a full computer, just a media and internet appliance... sort of like Ipad and Iphone (sorry for this comparison).
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RE: Will Windows 8 on ARM be an OEM-only product?
The Danger is Microsoft 18th Jan
@daniel.cunder@... Don't be sorry about the comparison. Apple did it and did it well. They make ton's of profit from the iPhone, iPod and iPad lines. Microsoft can't think on their own. They have to copy what Apple did and try to take it over so consumers only buy the MS versions. Microsoft only makes money by owning a monopoly. Now with their PC business threatened they are trying to figure out where to grab and hold a new monopoly.

Sorry MS. It was bad enough the first time around. No more chances for you.
i downloaded windows 8 and put it on my 20011 touch notebook and it locked it up all the time so when i tryed to go back to windows 7 it would not let me i had to buy a new hard drive thanks microsoft and yes i call their tec's and they counld not help me at all
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@jt59 Hi, sorry to hear that. I have been using Windows 8 DP on various Lenovo tablets (laptops with touch screens) and touch All-in-ones and always had great experience and no issues at all. Even during dual boot.
@jt59 Uhm, it looks like your HDD was faulty from the beginning.
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Or not
ego.sum.stig@... 18th Jan
A less annoying observation you could have made might have been, "Did you check the drive was kosher before all this (and after)? What diagnoses did you try on the drive?"

And, if you're usefully connected, you might have offered a, "Hey, you could talk to these guys, they might be able to help."
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RE: Will Windows 8 on ARM be an OEM-only product?
neil.postlethwaite@... 18th Jan
I think when Win8 for ARm is delivered, it will be so cut down from desktop, people will be wondering WTF is going on and why they even bothered, when they should have just scaled up WP7 for TAB's.
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RE: Will Windows 8 on ARM be an OEM-only product?
The Danger is Microsoft 18th Jan
@neil.postlethwaite@... Better yet, buy an iPad or wait 4 years for Microsoft to get their tablets right.

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