Windows 8: Nice for tablets, but what about PCs?

By | June 2, 2011, 6:33am PDT

A day after Microsoft showed off an early version of its user interface for Windows 8 — and I’ve actually had a chance to actually see it (via videos and photos) — I’ve got mixed feelings.

For tablets, I like the tiled interface that looks like it has taken its cues from Windows Media Center and Windows Phone. I’ve used the tiled interface on Windows Phone and I think it will be a great way to navigate Windows 8 when installed on a touch-first/touch-centric device.

For PCs, I am not so sure — especially for legacy PCs, like my two-year-old ASUS thin and light laptop. Why would I put Windows 8 on this non-touch-centric machine? Yes, I heard Microsoft execs say that the so-called Modern Shell (MoSH) will allow users to interact with a keyboard and mouse. And I believe users will be able to switch between the touch-centric mode and a more traditional Aero interface mode with Windows 8. But why should the default interface, optimized for gestures and touch, be required on a machine that I never plan to put my grubby fingers on?

Some good places to see the new Windows 8 UI:

Istartedsomething.com

ZDNet

Microsoft’s “Building Windows 8″ video

Engadget

Microsoft made it clear last night that — contrary to expectations and rumors — the new shell is going to be the default on all Windows 8 PCs, and not just tablets. Many of us Microsoft watchers had believed it would be the default on tablets.

If I am a business user with Windows Vista or Windows 7 installed on my existing PC, will I want to upgrade to a touch-centric Windows 8? Even if it has faster startup/shutdown/hibernate, a better built-in data-recovery mechanism, or a Windows Store for purchasing/keeping track of my apps? I’m not so sure.

I’m starting to wonder whether Microsoft has decided to target users who are planning to buy new PCs preloaded with Windows with Windows 8, and to just let the existing base stick with an older version of Windows. Given the emphasis by Microsoft execs during the June 1 demo of Windows 8 on the new kinds of immersive applications that will be possible with Windows 8, it does seem that Microsoft isn’t thinking about users with legacy/line-of-business apps with its coming Windows release.

(And as one of my readers noted, if you’re a developer, do you now write apps to work with Windows 8 “legacy” mode or Windows 8 touch-mode? Maybe Microsoft’s decision to push HTML and JavaScript as the way to write new Windows 8 apps dictates that decision for you….)

On the Windows 8 ARM tablets that are coming, Microsoft officials have said there will be no compatibility later enabling existing Windows x86 applications to run on those devices. (That’s why Microsoft is having to rejigger Office to work natively on ARM-based Windows 8 tablets.) On x86 Windows 8 PCs, there will be support for (some? all?) apps and peripherals that currently run on Windows 7, according to Microsoft’s own statement:

“We also showed effortless movement between existing Windows programs and new Windows 8 apps. The full capabilities of Windows continue to be available to you, including the Windows Explorer and Desktop, as does compatibility with all Windows 7 logo PCs, software and peripherals.”

(Microsoft hasn’t yet confirmed how/whether it plans to include some kind of virtualization technology as part of Windows 8, allowing users to run older legacy and line-of-business apps.)

For a company that has tried to blur the lines between tablets and PCs, I guess Microsoft’s new touch-optimized shell interface makes sense. But for a company that continues to play up how many more PCs are being sold than iPads and Android tablets, the new Windows 8 default UI seems like somewhat of an odd choice. As my ZDNet colleague Larry Dignan asks, “Can Windows 8 really do it all”?

What do you think?

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Windows 8: Nice for tablets, but what about PCs?
makrekwe92-24353651768719183073778865341807 10th Nov
xwqaqj,good post!
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Too early
aaron44126 2nd Jun
It's too early to judge Windows 8's UI. I say wait until you actually get the chance to give it a try on a legacy PC. It looks like it might be awkward but I'm sure they've thought of this use case. There are millions of business users who spend a great portion of their time sitting at a desk with a standard PC using business apps, after all, and Microsoft is not going to ignore this market segment.

The demo shows Office 2010 running on Windows 8 along with the standard Windows desktop (note the ribbon interface in Windows Explorer). I'm sure this is done without "XP Mode"-style virtualization.
@aaron44126
Fully agree with you.. this is pre-beta stage. We all know that inthis stage the UI will go trough a lot of fine-tuning. With a bilion users on Windows-whatever, MS should know how to treat every stage their users are in, in order to get to Win8. Remember there are more hen 100 million netbooks sold, so that is also a category they need to have in mind. I trust that Steven Sinofsky (as usual) knows what he's doing and will proof all the nay sayers wrong.
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@vhaakmat

Agreed. They wouldn't be going forward with this if they didn't have a clue what they were doing. Sinofsky is far from an idiot.

Microsoft has too many legacy users to just forget about. Relax and we'll see what they are planning most likely at the BUILD conference later this year. happy
... about what the future of computer is going to be about. The touch-optimized interface looks unique and innovative. They have finally moved some of the better design cues from their consumer UIs into Windows and it's exciting.

But this new UI seems like it is just a bolted-on presentation layer. Underneath it all is still regular old Windows. I have serious doubts that MS will continue to make really bad concessions to "legacy support". Windows 7 really suffers from this and as a result and remains merely good when it could be great.
@Cylon Centurion

"Agreed. They wouldn't be going forward with this if they didn't have a clue what they were doing. Sinofsky is far from an idiot."

Danger, Kin, Courier, PlaysForSure, Zunes, Slate/TabletPC/UMPC, yup this company always seem to have a clue of what they're doing.
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Exactly!!!
i8thecat3 2nd Jun
@vhaakmat

No way MS will throw yet another flop to market... They know exactly what they are doing... Granted they knew exactly what they were doing with MS Bob and Windows ME... And Vista... And the Kin... But this is different... This is Windows... Not that ME wasn't windows... and not that Vista wasn't windows... This is windows 8 and there is no way in heck that MS will throw us another flopper... They know exactly what they are doing... I have complete faith in Balmer and believe he will hit a homer with this one... yup... 8th ones a charm... This one will show them all... it will be slim, lean, and compact, and it will do both touch and mouse and keyboard, and will have everything windows 7 has and more, but wll also be smaller and faster, and better and run faster, and it will run on tablets and laptops and desktops and netbooks and smart phones and they will all handle it perfectly and it will be more secure and unbreakable and made of teflon and eggs won't stick to it and it won't be the bad kind of teflon but it will be the good teflon...No need to worry one bit... And when MS is done with windows 8 they will make a family car that will go 500 miles on a single drop of water and when not in use it will shring to the size of a matchbook and you can put it in your pocket and you will never have to worry about parking and then the MS Genie will grant your last wish. but make sure this is a good one and is non selfish so the devil doesn't get your soul because that one good deed will break the contract you signed with the devil and she won't get your soul and you won't be super sensitive and sing about dolphin safe tuna and windows 8 will be the best thing EVER!!!! You just wait and see all you non believers who didn't get picked up in the rapture that happened a couple weeks ago... SINNERS!!!!! REPENT!!!! Oh look!!! Squirrels!!!
  • Flagged
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Vista wasn't a flop
Michael Alan Goff 4th Jun
Microsoft sold many more copies of it than OSX. So if Vista is a flop, so is OSX.
@aaron44126
Exactly right. Too soon to tell.

Looks promising, though, I must say.
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"Windows Portal"
scH4MMER Updated - 3rd Jun
@aaron44126

This isn't a whole new OS, it's really just a "portal" view into the OS... and it's a pretty thin layer. Once you click past the tile your app can be whatever it wants to be. This adds a lot of potential while being touch-friendly to boot, but apps that don't benefit from it can easily ignore it.
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I think it works
arnavdesai@... 2nd Jun
Based on my interactions with mouse & keyboard with the Zune Software UI & also Media Center I think it works perfectly fine. I would not be too worried about the 'working/not working' section of it. I would be more concerned if folks will redevelop (or at least rebuild) their existing Windows apps with the new UI paradigm & also how well will they work across x86 vs ARM
@arnavdesai@... Agree with u...No issues what so ever in using Zune on desktop..I think it should be same with the new start screen
@arnavdesai@...
The HTML/JavaScript enviroment means the 8 Apps will work without a hitch on either x86 or ARM. I think legacy apps are bascially a no-go for ARM, however.
@jdakula I'm sure .NET apps will work fine.
@jdakula. Legacy native code apps will need to be re-built for ARM ... just as Microsoft have done with Office. Interesting thing is that so long as your code is pretty neat and tidy and doesn't take any architecture-specific dependencies (e.g. endian-ness), then it should largely just require a recompile.

.NET code, on the other hand, should run untouched ... so long as you've not included any unsafe code or code that is processor architecture aware.
Agree with u...No issues what so ever in using Zune on desktop..I think it should be same with the new start screen. buy essay | Buy Assignment | Buy coursework | Buy Dissertation | Buy Thesis
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When MS released Visa/7 they were promoting WPF/Silverlight as the UI of the future, now it seems MS is focusing on HTML/JavaScript for UI. I love WPF/Silverlight, will the new windows 8 UI not be nativly support WPF?. If so, it makes no sense.

Update. I accidently put this post in the wrong section. I meant to be responding to @jdakula (a few posts down). sorry
But why should the default interface, optimized for gestures and touch, be required on a machine that I never plan to put my grubby fingers on?//

Well the reason i beleive MS is doing this by deafult is to give app developers more users to target...If they make it as default it will be on 100 milion devices in no time...

Otherwise wht would happen is they have to chase silly developer like Rovio (Angry Birds) to make damm app..
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Used to work in an office
HollywoodDog 2nd Jun
@harsha.cs11 around 1997, and every so often someone would say loudly "NO I don't want to turn my desktop in to a browswer". How little has changed.
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@harsha.cs11
From what I gathered, that's not exactly the default UI. It's just new. I'm sure you'll be able to change it to the more traditional one. My desktop will use the old one, and my future Windows tablet will use the new UI. And switching between the two looked extremely easy.
Steven made it quite clear, for applications that need a high level of precision like Photoshop and Excel, the traditional desktop will be there for those applications. For a new set of applications that are touch centric, the new user experience is there, meaning you can run applications that do not require a mouse or keyboard. So if I am lounging on the sofa and just want to do casual browsing while watching the TV, I can do that, if I want do a quick Tweet or Facebook post I can do that.

Windows 8 is offering the best of both worlds, the desktop you have come to know and love since Windows 95, is still there as a quickly accessible Tile. I hope Microsoft puts in a default option though, so when you start your computer, its the first thing you see instead of the Start Home screen.
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Contributr
Yes, it looks like you'll be able to switch "modes," but if I'm a developer, am I going to write for the new shell or the legacy environment? MS' emphasis is definitely on getting folks to write for new shell (with HTML and JS)... I think choice is good but on a non-touch PC, I don't want a bunch of apps designed first and foremost for touch... MJ
@Mary Jo Foley I think Microsoft's point is you should develop for what suits your application best. Use the classic shell if your application demands precision, develop for Immersive/Modern if your application is suited to an environment that provides live tiles and toasts and you expect your application to be used on the go rather than whilst sitting at a desk.
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@Mary Jo Foley What I believe Microsoft wants devs to do is create apps that compliment both environments. For instance, if Adobe wanted to target the next version of Photoshop on Windows 8, they could create a traditional desktop version with wizz bang features, but also a complimentary touch based mode accessible from the Start Home screen that is more geared toward casual activities, whether its for just previewing photo projects, sharing, basic editing like brightness, temperature and so on. As Steven said, Touch cannot replace the mouse and keyboard, but it does have user cases and I believe that is the direction developers need to go in, complimentary experiences.
@Mary Jo Foley

One word. Kinect.
I think choice is good but on a non-touch PC, I don't want a bunch of apps designed first and foremost for touch... MJ

I would agree with you, but I also think the reverse has traditionally been true in Microsoft's case, as has been shown in the past.

If they really want to be taken seriously then they need to build two different OSes one for touch and one for desktop. No shortcuts. No band-aids. That will be able to interact seamlessly with one another.
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"Kinect"
RationalGuy 2nd Jun
@retnep

MS is in the position to completely change the PC experience with deep integration of Kinect technology on the PC coupled with this new UI approach. I just don't think they have the guts to push their developers and customers there with the necessary force. They just want to keep selling licenses for Word and Excel.
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If you were a good developer ...
RationalGuy 2nd Jun
@Mary Jo Foley

... you would write for the environment that will give your users the best experience. That means doing what is best for them, not what is best for you. If you were a smart developer, you would meet the new possibilities of Win8 not with, "What do I need this for?" but with, "Now that this is here, what can I do with it?" Of course, MS is for the most part has the former mindset, and so may not be able to convincingly sell their developers on the need to be innovative.
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The video was intriguing
ScorpioBlue Updated - 2nd Jun
I just don't think they have the guts to push their developers and customers there with the necessary force. They just want to keep selling licenses for Word and Excel.

You're right. I don't think they have the guts to do it. They'll play it safe and band-aid a desktop OS on to a swivel-screen tablet like they always have.

The Metro UI is about the only thing they have to compete with the iOS interface if they are truly serious about getting into the tablet market. But they'll second-rate it. They'll cut too many corners and marginalize it and it will wind up like the Zune or the Kin. An interesting idea abandoned to the scrapheap of tech history.
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You'll write for legacy
HollywoodDog 2nd Jun
@Mary Jo Foley "f I'm a developer, am I going to write for the new shell or the legacy environment? MS' emphasis is definitely on getting folks to write for new shell"

Putting a browser in the desktop didn't work in 97 and it won't work today.

People don't use Windows because they want an experience. They use it because that's what's installed in their cubes at work.
@HollywoodDog
People don't use Windows because they want an experience. They use it because that's what's installed in their cubes at work

Yet you still say it as though it will become a factual statement if you repeate it enough.

But then one could go onto say that people do not buy Apple products because they wan't an experience, they buy it because their friend say it makes them "look cool".

There is as much "truth" in my statement as there is in yours.
plain
@Mr. Dee Ideally you could have a immersive app reflow into a desktop app and reflow back again into an immersive app. The difference would be more about presentation logic than app logic. This is what I was hoping for. So far it doesn't look like that's what we're getting.
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If there's just a button to click to switch between the new UI and the Win7 UI, and you don't have to reboot/logoff/wait to switch on the fly, then it's fine if the new touch-centric UI is the default. Of course, that's a big "if" there...
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@YukioCowboy

In the video, it appears the user can switch on the fly. There is a live tile the user can use to get to the classic Win7 desktop, after which, they can switch right back.
@YukioCowboy

"Of course, that's a big 'if' there... "

I suggest watching the video she linked to. There is no "if," you can indeed switch on the fly, no issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p92QfWOw88I
@CobraA1 -- Just because it's in the video doesn't mean it will make it into the final product.
It will be literally like having the blown up UI of media centre on your desktop PC, this UI is unlikely to scale to large DPI screens and will likely look big and low res. They simply won?t be able bridge this gap of desktop apps and the new app model, who?s going to develop for both or one or either? How will they really show they are serious with the next version of office, simply add bigger Ribbon UI elements. They desperately needed a way to switch the UI properly, they have failed at this and rolled out an App that provides the touch UI, and it?s just slightly ramped up media centre, it?s looking pretty unprofessional, business is sure to think it a bit of a joke those awful colours and badly thought out ideas for the live tiles. The Metro UI font handling and transitions have been lost. Are any WP7 apps going to work, unlikely, they are even breaking with Silverlight, another platform shift which is sure to further alienate devs. They are even talking about this cobbled front end replacing the Start Menu, this whole thing really puts end to the theory that we are now living in a post PC world. Unlike Vista they won?t get another crack at fixing the problems with this.
@GP101 Devs are writing for the web nowadays, at least from the presentation side of things. Microsoft is just keeping with the times without breaking legacy compatibility
these days.
@both . . . .

Devs are writing for all kinds of things these days . . .
@GP101
Looks like we are looking at 2 different things. The first shot of WIn8 is on a 42" screen on the wall and it looked good (even from where he cameraman was shooting). Also why do you all think that Silverlight is dead? This is MS we're talking about, not SUN or Apple. Devs are important to them and MS themselves are pushing Silverlight 4 and soon there should be a SL 5 beta, optimize for Win8. So all the Silverlight investment are quite safe. As a matter of fact, we're porting all our apps from WinForms and WPF to Silverlight, because of portability and most likely will run perfectly on ARM processors. The new Win8 will most likely be accompanied by a new version of .NET that should take advantage of all the new APIs.
@GP101 Umm, what?

Conclusions about a product not yet out, of which we've only seen minimal glimpses?

I don't see any DPI issues in the video I've seen.

You are pretty desperate to make them look bad, it seems.
I think it is a brave and intelligent idea to set MoSH as the default interface.

The Welcome screen will still accept CTRL+ALT+DEL to unlock.
It's also nice to open Windows and see your apps straight away, that is, after all, what computers are used for. How many people do you know who have a cluttered desktop full of icons just so their apps are easy to launch?

I also imagine that all this Moshiness will be able to be switched off via group policy on Windows Server 2013. Don't forget that the Windows Server & Client share the same code base and I imagine it will simply be a feature you can turn on/off as you like (at least on Server, may be disabled on Client)

I wrote about my opinion of our first real look at Windows 8 on my blog ? http://thommck.wordpress.com/2011/06/02/windows-8-will-be-great-on-a-slate-but-is-it-too-late/
@thommck@...

Microsoft has shown that you can build UI conventions for servers that are both easy and elegant. This started with Windows Home Server 2008, but now we have 2011, and SBS Essentials and Storage Server 2008 R2 Essentials all using a new UI without relying on MMC. Taking the features of the tabbed-based UI into MoSH fairly easily. MMC: not so much. Also, the capabilities of HTML5 would give you good options for monitoring and performance metrics for your IT setup.
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@Joe_Raby It just does not have a place for what a Server is intended to do. The new UI is more end user oriented. If you look Windows Server 2008 R2 UI its more like Windows Classic, because Microsoft obviously knows there is no point of Aero on a server.
looks fantastic. definitvely the right choice. all the points in the article are invalid quite simply because the "classic" shell is still there. if you don't want the touch UI and apps, don't use it. simple. almost apple simple. it just works.
@neonspark
And Uncle Steve Jobs has told us that we are living in the post-PC age when tablets will rule. Seems that MS took him at his word.
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Exactly
WilErz 2nd Jun
@ neonspark

If you only use Wimp apps, it looks like you can have the same sort of UI experience as with Windows 7 today. The aim is obviously to broaden the reach to touch scenarios.

If there's good keyboard/mouse control of the new shell, I doubt I'll use the old one anyway, even on a desktop, but for those who prefer it, it isn't going away.
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Kinect vs Windows 8
hobbes80 2nd Jun
I really really hope they integrate the ability to understand Kinect input as a "touch" device in windows 8 so I can upgrade my media center, hook up a web-cam or a Kinnect, and use hand gestures from my couch to control my media center.

Mouse and keyboard will never go away simply because you can't have an office full of people trying to touch type or speak to their desktops. But the addition to modern UIs to our home PCs is refreshing and exciting. Looking forward to seeing how developers take advantage of this new medium to make it easier to view and manipulate information.
I'm not entirely sold on the new design...I would have gone for a much more free-form approach, but I think it's absolutely the right direction. We'll know more when the development tools arrive on how easy it will be for the average person to create apps for the new OS.

As for Leaving compatibiloty behind, that's simply brilliant. What better way to tell people to buy Windows 7 than to make it clear Windows 8 won't work with their current intalled application-base.

David Cornelson /Chicago
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UI
rrmcco 2nd Jun
If your using a laptop you do not need to touch the screen as a lot of the mouse pads support gestures now.
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RE: Windows 8: Nice for tablets, but what about PCs?
makrekwe92-24353651768719183073778865341807 10th Nov
xwqaqj,good post!

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