Windows 8 on ARM: The desktop remains (or does it?)

By | January 10, 2012, 6:29am PST

Summary: Will Microsoft offer the Desktop App Win32 environment on Windows 8 on ARM? There’s still no conclusive answer.

What’s the latest word? Is the Win32 environment — known as the Desktop App — still part of Windows 8 on ARM? Or isn’t it?

During the last Consumer Electronics Show (CES) keynote for Microsoft on January 9, company officials demonstrated Windows 8 on both Intel and ARM PCs.

The Desktop App, unsurprisingly, was still on whichever post-Developer Preview build of Windows 8 on the Intel-based Samsung tablet that Tami Reller, Microsoft’s Chief Marketing Officer for Windows, demonstrated. But It also appeared — at least from this screen shot taken last night by Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Andras Velvart — that it also was part of the ARM version of Windows 8, too:

(Click on the image to enlarge.)

The Desktop App/environment is that icon that looks like a patch of blue sky toward the bottom right-hand side in the screenshot.

Here’s the problem: We don’t know whether the version on ARM that Reller showed off is new or old. Remember: At the Microsoft Build conference in September 2011, there were ARM tablets sporting the Desktop App, but they weren’t available for testers to put through their paces. (Some were under glass, even.)

Texas Instruments also showed off yesterday at CES a Windows 8 ARM tablet prototype. As The Verge noted, it’s still not clear even from that demo machine whether this is a newer or older Windows 8 build, so, again, it’s inconclusive as to whether the Desktop App that is visible is going to be part of the final Windows 8 on ARM release.

The fact that Reller kept stressing during the Microsoft keynote last night that Windows 8 would be a “no compromise” experience – Microsoft’s preferred way of referring to its ability to support non-Metro-style apps — makes me think there’s a chance that the Desktop App will make it into the Windows 8 ARM build after all. But she never stated this outright.

There was talk late last year that the Windows team had decided to drop the Desktop App from Windows 8 on ARM. A number of users from whom I heard were in favor of such a move. But others weren’t. Nor were a number of developers who are still hoping for a relatively easy way to get their existing apps onto Windows 8.

Would a simple “yes” or “no” be so hard? Maybe the Softies think the answer is obvious (?). Microsoft officials, when asked whether the Desktop App will or won’t be supported on Windows 8 on ARM, aren’t commenting.

The Windows 8 beta is still on for “late February,” Reller reiterated during the CES keynote last night. And there’s still no word from Microsoft officials as to the ship target for Windows 8 (though many company watchers still think it will be summer/fall this year for both the Intel and ARM versions).

Update: A couple of related posts worth highlighting:

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

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Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

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Talkback Most Recent of 45 Talkback(s)

  • RE: Windows 8 on ARM: The desktop remains (or does it?)
    Microsoft should just make ARM Desktop Environment an optional feature turned off by default on tablets. Beginners won't miss it since they use App Store. Advanced users can turn it on, but then be warned of limitations and power consequences.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    bobkemp2123@...
    10th Jan
  • RE: Windows 8 on ARM: The desktop remains (or does it?)
    @bobkemp2123@...
    it should be there fully functional w/o user action, otherwise that's the point of windows on a tablet, just use windows phone. if you don't use the desktop, unpin it. People forget MSFT has no gain from a desktop OS if it wasn't planning to have it on. The reason they didn't go for WP7 was because they felt an ipad me-too device won't sell. and they are right.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    neonspark
    10th Jan
  • RE: Windows 8 on ARM: The desktop remains (or does it?)
    @neonspark I agree. Without access to the desktop experience, it's not even worth owning a Windows 8 tablet. That was/is the appeal to me, being able to own a tablet that handles both apps and full fledged software competently.

    This article is news to me though... I thought it had already been confirmed that the experience would be the same across both ARM and x86 chips.... in fact, I thought I heard her say as much last night.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Carvega
    10th Jan
  • Don't see how Win32 Apps could run on ARMs.
    Win32 is for Intel CISC chips while ARM is RISK. I don't see how the Intel native apps could be recompiled and run on ARMs. Emulators are not an option either. The only thing could go across are .Net / Metro Apps.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    LBiege
    10th Jan
  • My ADATA 596 has an ARM processor and it crashes everyday with 1st app.
    @ LBiege

    " Yes I agree, every morning when I go to play my Win32 video game I go through a memory dump on Windows7. Where the display driver has failed; then a reboot and everything is fine till the next day. I leave my computer on all the time so it would happen even if I were to shut down."

    " I don't use IE9 either because of constant freezes and black screens. The same goes for Firefox 8.0.1; I'm glad that Google Chrome has come through with no issues."
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Zurk_Orkin
    10th Jan
  • RE: Windows 8 on ARM: The desktop remains (or does it?)
    @LBiege: Win32 is actually a pretty CPU & machine architecure agnostic API. Remember, Windows NT (upon which all versions of Windows since XP are based) was originally developed on MIPS, then ported to x86, PowerPC, Alpha, Itanium, x64 and now ARM.

    Most app code is platform agnostic in that it doesn't give a damn about what type of CPU it's running on. Unless a developer has a specific need to target x86/x64 features there's little reason why most C/C++ code can't be recompiled to target ARM.

    In fact, most native app source code is probably in a better state to port to ARM today than it was before the introduction of x64 which caused a number of apps to be scrubbed of many processor-specific bugs.

    In fact, the hardest thing about porting Windows to ARM isn't user-mode apps, it's the kernel and drivers. Now that it appears the OEM's are well down the path on completing this phase of the move to Win8, it'll soon be the job of app developers to start porting their apps to run on ARM powered devices.

    Oh ... and by the way ... it's RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computer).
    ZDNet Gravatar
    bitcrazed
    10th Jan
  • RE: Windows 8 on ARM: The desktop remains (or does it?)
    @Zurk_Orkin: Perhaps you should spent a few moments to fix your PC - then you'd enjoy the trouble-free experience that the vast majority of us PC users enjoy these days.

    If your display driver is crashing regularly, causing a BSOD, then chances are you've either installed the wrong driver for your hardware, your driver is somehow corrupted, or your graphics card is faulty.

    If you're also seeing other graphically intensive apps crash regularly, especially those that employ graphics acceleration (that make demands of your graphics card and drivers), then you DEFINITELY need to fix the underlying issue.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    bitcrazed
    10th Jan
  • RE: Windows 8 on ARM: The desktop remains (or does it?)
    @neonspark
    Average users will run into problems with desktop on ARM machines. Incompatibility with old x86 programs, power drain issues with legacy apps and malware threats. Why put novices in this position by default?
    Power users could just enable desktop in Control Panel on ARM tablet.
    If someone is very reliant on legacy apps, they should really buy an Intel Tablet instead of ARM.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    bobkemp2123@...
    11th Jan
  • What is that Library icon above the Desktop App
    It looks like there will be an easy way to access Windows Explorer through Metro if thats what it is.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    adacosta38
    10th Jan
  • Run, Intel, run!
    If I were running Microsoft, I would not provide a definitive answer to this question. I would just hint that we're working like crazy on it. It's up to Intel to show up later this year with x86 chips that can be as frugal with power as the ARM chips are. If you tell Intel they have more time, they'll take more time.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Robert Hahn
    10th Jan
  • RE: Windows 8 on ARM: The desktop remains (or does it?)
    @Robert Hahn
    Given the horrible battery life of android devices and yet stellar sales, it is hard to see a downside to them just supporting it.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    neonspark
    10th Jan
  • RE: Windows 8 on ARM: The desktop remains (or does it?)
    @neonspark The top-selling Android tablets get 10+ hours of battery life... so what horrible battery life are you referring to?

    Still, if I can get the full Win 8 experience with as little as 8 hrs of battery life... that'd still be worth it to me.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Carvega
    10th Jan
  • Right...
    @neonspark

    ...until you use Flash.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Joe_Raby
    10th Jan
  • RE: Windows 8 on ARM: The desktop remains (or does it?)
    @neonspark
    Not all android devices have bad battery life if you know how to use them. I get 3 days constant use on my evo with calls text video streaming.My galaxy tab 7 inch gets 4 days with full usgage with no problem so thats not too bad.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Fletchguy
    10th Jan
  • RE: Windows 8 on ARM: The desktop remains (or does it?)
    @neonspark there is a downside: no desktop applications to-date will run on ARM. so you could go download all the 'for windows' apps you want but they won't work.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    eatredmeatfeelgood@...
    11th Jan

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