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Windows Phone 7: Will NoDo show? Has Mango gone soft?

By | March 4, 2011, 10:13am PST

Summary: What’s the latest with the Windows Phone 7 update saga? Will NoDo show next week? And has Mango gone soft?

This week, Microsoft released a “fixed” version of its first software update for Windows Phone 7 that was designed to alleviate problems reported by a number of Samsung users. However, the Samsung WP7 fix doesn’t seem to install correctly for a number of them.

Update 1: Microsoft officials said at the very end of the day on March 4 that the company believes only about 100 Samsung WP7 users have reported problems installing the “fixed” update. The workaround that Microsoft is suggesting for “error 800705B4″ is, basically, to delete and reinstall content. Not an optimal solution, by any stretch.

I contacted Microsoft on March 3 to see what the company planned to do now, and waited for an answer more than 24 hours since the first reports of problems began filtering in. On March 4, I was told by a spokesperson the company was looking into the situation, but had nothing further to say.

Makram Daou, who runs MobileTechWorld.com, and was the first to post about the problems with the Samsung WP7 fix, had some interesting observations about what seems to be going wrong.

“From what I’m seeing (the Samsung WP7 update problem) must be related to the phone’s storage, probably the way apps and content are installed on the phone. Some are on the ROM and others on the NAND flash (both are formatted as one big partition and seen as such by the OS). I don’t know why it’s only an issue on Samsung devices, because LG’s handsets essentially have the same setup (but not the same NAND type/manufacturer)” Daou told me.

He noted that some WP7 Samsung users were able to apply the first and revised updates after they erased most of the content on their phones. And he had an interesting suggestion for those WP7 users having problems. Instead of going the Microsoft-suggested route of applying the update, which is downloaded on the host PC before the phone is backed-up and then updated. Daou suggested that users do a hard reset of their phones before trying to update as this currently seems to be the safest way to do it. The resulting update process does take longer, but it seems to be a way to alleviate the update issue, he said.

Microsoft — at least until this WP7 update fiasco began on February 23 — was expected to begin rolling out the first “major” update for WP7 on or around March 8. That update, codenamed “NoDo,” is slated to add copy-and-paste functionality, CDMA support, and improved performance and marketplace search, to WP7 devices. I’ll be curious whether NoDo hits next week or not, given the ongoing update issues.

Meanwhile, Windows Phone Secrets author Paul Thurrott has said that he hears it will be next-to-impossible for Microsoft to roll out its second major WP7 update this year. That release, codenamed “Mango,” includes IE 9 Mobile, among other new features.

Unlike Thurrott, I didn’t write a book about Windows Phone 7. In fact, I’m still using a loaner device, since there is no WP7 on Verizon. But I will say I am hearing that Microsoft recently promised its OEMs and carriers that they will get the Mango bits by early fall at the latest, enabling them to ship WP7 phones running Mango in time for holiday 2011. So unless Microsoft has gone back very recently and told those partners “Just kidding!” — I still am betting we’ll see WP7s running Mango in 2011.

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Topics

Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Windows Phone 7: Will NoDo show? Has Mango gone soft?
dsfwrryd18-24353589260930765128987193640853 Updated - 10th Nov
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Don't get me wrong ... i am a die hard fan of the WP7. I have a Samsung Focus and am one of those people who are waiting on the side lines for the "OK!" on the update, but Microsoft needs to get this update process under control! It's only hurting business that they desperately need if Windows Phone 7 is going to be as big of a success as they want to to be!
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@Justin071894 ... Agreed! They need to release a "feature pack" every month, or at least every other month.
@GoodThings2Life - The servicing costs of a monthly update pack would be astronomical, not to mentiont the impact on users.

I would much rather Microsoft settle into a nice 6 month cadence and focus on building substantial updates into each release.

After all, its mostly the apps one runs on the phone that you want updated on a regular basis, not the phone OS itself.
@GoodThings2Life How often does Apple update the iOS ?
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Apple iOS updates
ac3_z 5th Mar 2011
@Justin071894: You can see the update iOS update history at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_version_history. Paul Thurrott complained about the lack of WP7 updates vs. iPhone within the same time frame at http://windowsphonesecrets.com/2011/01/18/software-updates-windows-phone-vs-iphone/.
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RE: Windows Phone 7: Will NoDo show? Has Mango gone soft?
The Danger is Microsoft 5th Mar 2011
@GoodThings2Life - I guess on average Apple releases a new iOS every four months. 6 months is no stretch for MS to release. Just make it twice a year and MS will be fine. But DO release more often (like Apple does) when a problem is found!
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@Justin071894 : the problem's not WP7 as is, but the crummy underlining architecture Microsoft selected for the "behind-the-scenes" work.

As you might recall, all apps are based on a modified Silverlight and all Xbox apps are XNA.

With the release of Windows Embedded Compact 7, we now know that the UI for WP7 must have been done on a very early version of "Silverlight for Embedded" which is XAML with C++ objects.

The problem was that WP7 uses the Windows Embedded 6.0 R3 kernel—not Windows Embedded Compact 7 kernel—which most systems integrators can tell you is just crap, and bolted a pre-beta "SL for Embedded" framework. So you have pre-beta UI manager above unstable kernel with the upgrader built on both "technologies".

At this point, I assume NoDo is stable "Silverlight for Embedded" bolted on the existing kernel, with UI and C++ changes to support the change; and Mango, I guess is a full upgrade of the OS to WEC7. But you still have the crummy updater... so chicken and egg.

The worst part is that all this mess evidences that Microsoft pushed WP7 out the door when the underlining bits weren't ready for prime-time (just the fancy UI, which caught everybody's eyes, but concealed the REAL THING below).
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@cosuna
And in which way is this related to an issue with some precise Samsung phone firmware version?
I don't know where you get your information from but the last thing the 3rd party application model could be described is "unstable". The reliability of WP7 is outstanding for an initial release of both the consumer and developer experience.
  • Flagged
@cosuna I must agree with @TheCyberKnight. I think the overall stablity of the OS is great. I have only encountered two bugs (Marketplace & Camera settings) and have very few complaints about it.
@cosuna Actually, Windows Phone is a hybrid OS. It uses mostly Windows CE 6 R3 and bits and pieces from CE 7(EC7). They most likely would've used the Silverlight portion of CE 7 on WP7. Look at the Zune HD, it uses pure CE 6R3 with no bits from anything else. That's why it isn't compatible with Silverlight. It also shows parts of CE7 was used when you look at the processors the phones use. The Snapdragon processor is a ARMv7 proc., and CE6 doesn't support it. CE7 has support for ARMv7. That's the other reason why the Zune HD uses the older ARMv6 Nvidia Tegra because there isn't any support for it in it's kernel.
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If it is only 100 people who have reported this latest update error could it be this is only affecting individuals who have installed certain microSD cards in their Samsung Focus?
@cool8man
BINGO
@cool8man
..and speaking of microSD cards, are they (MSFT/Samsung) ever going to publish a list of approved cards?
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RE: Windows Phone 7: Will NoDo show? Has Mango gone soft?
luxsphinx@... Updated - 7th Mar 2011
@inahurry

I believe there is already a list out there. I do know that some Patriot cards are approved and SanDisk has a Windows Phone 7 Compatible 8GB card out that they officially announced back in November.
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I think NoDo will be a go
Michael Alan Goff 4th Mar 2011
They're fixing the firmware issues, so it should be okay.
@goff256 I hope "NoDo" & "Mango" are both go! I would love to see WP7 dominate over Apple lol
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I don't care who dominates
Michael Alan Goff 4th Mar 2011
But competition is good for the end-user.
@goff256 this is true ... i just would like to see WP7 become a success and maybe earn Microsoft some respect lol
Nice bit of FUD. The first major update isn't supposed to arrive for a week and already the sky has fallen because a small percentage of phones are having problems.
@pdskep

Well the iphone 4 death grip really only effected a small percentage of users of that phone as well, but people had no problems claiming the sky was falling for that.
@yoshipod - I think that the concern with the iPhone4 was that is appeared to be a widespread issue that was endemic in the one and only iPhone4 handset and thus affected a VERY large percentage of iPhone4 customers.

This issue, on the other hand affects a small percentage of the users of one manufacturer's handsets. That's a smaller, but not insignificant number, even though the doom & gloom crowd would have you believe otherwise.
@pdskep : Read my previous post and you'll know that this is big deal. Else don't be surprised if this happens again (and again, and again....)

Small percentage == PR damage control.

Reality : With WP7 sales numbers on less than 2 million even 10,000 is TOOOO much of a problem.
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"Make Believe" data. Nice one....
Johnny Vegas Updated - 4th Mar 2011
2M is a number from about 60 days ago. But even if there were zero sales since then 10000 would be 0.5%. Where do you get the idea that that's TOOOO much of a problem? It's certainly more than Microsoft would like, but then so is 1, and that's not too much of a problem either. In fact if you consider that the % of people having a problem is around the same as the % of android users who've ever gotten an os update for their phone it starts to look pretty damn good...
OK, I really like the looks of WP7. Like you, Mary Jo, I haven't jumped on the WP7 wagon in part because of the carrier availability.

However, if you were producing an update for ANYTHING, don't you think you could come up with a better code name than NoDo? That's like the old joke about the Chevy Nova sounding like "No Go" in Spanish.

"So, will this update do what I need?"
"No Do, man!"
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Contributr
NoDo
Mary Jo Foley 4th Mar 2011
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Exactly...
cosuna 4th Mar 2011
@Mary Jo Foley : so we would assume no Homer are users of WP7.

LOL!!!
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This is a process
Atley 4th Mar 2011
With the number of different phones out there, there are bound to be issues, especially with the first update. I am sure that they are working hard on it and will have it out as soon as humanly possible.
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You missed it
Solid Water 4th Mar 2011
@Atley
This is their second attempt. The update was supposed to fix previous failure for Samsung phones where phones were bricked.
Mango (7.2) is still planned for the September release. June end is RTM.
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People keep forgetting that there were just an many updates issues for the iPhone (Um and there's only 1 version supoprt in an update from Apple) and theres 20 for Windows Phone 7... Dude there's a new Android update coming out every 3 mos. Each iteration has issues... I think Microsoft is doing a great job at this if they send out an update and 1- 10 phone have issues. those are great numbers in any Mobile Atmosphere. Oh and for all the nay sayers of the WP7 -- with in the last week... I know 10 people who just went out and bought a WP7 all are freaking out about how cool the phone is...
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@darkriderdesign

+1
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If Samsung would step up and join the investigation this would all be past us. NoDo and Mango updates will be out as scheduled. I never understood why people put so much faith in Paul Thurrott. He works off of tipsters just like the rest of the mobile blogs.
@Loverock Davidson
and sometimes he guesses a lot of stuff.
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Just throwing this out there. No one has really mentioned the fact that Samsung phones have a micro SD slot. So there is the ROM, NAND, and micro SD that would need to be wiped. It has been said that the SD cards become virtually useless for any other purposes after they have been installed in the phone. Maybe the phone is having trouble reformatting the SD?
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@dshane..I've only heard this mentioned by another poster on one blog..only one poster! My point is is that your explanation sounds very credible; that none of the actual blog sites and bloggers (with all of their technical know how and such) are even mentioning this as being a possibility - they only want to blame Samsung and/or Microsoft. If they actually considered what you've explained it might be interpreted by some as putting the issue on the consumers who 'bucked the rule' by installing their own SD cards when Microsoft specifically told them not to do so.
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Sigh...
empirestatebuddy 4th Mar 2011
Microsoft really needs to get its act together. They have to be aware that the tech media seizes on every little screw-up they make... so why not make sure that something works before releasing it? WP7 is a great device, but the room for error is very slim for Microsoft. The competition is fierce.

On the bright side... the new AT&T ads (with the flashing, flying phones) are finally on the right track. We need to see more of that!
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You have worried too much...
jk_10 4th Mar 2011
I agree with you, but don't agree to "competition is fierce". There is no competition at all. No matter what happened, I guarantee you a 10% market share for WP7 end of 2011. 30%~50% end of 2012. I know you don't hear anyone saying it, I do. That's only thing I am sure in the world.
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I am with you
Solid Water 4th Mar 2011
@jk_10
Just want to extrapolate it: 70% - 90% by the end of 2013
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RE: Your market-share predictions
Userama 5th Mar 2011
@jk_10 & Solid Water
I'll have some of what you guys are smoking.
Must be reeeeeeeallly good stuff!!!
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@jk_10
I will call you on that. Here are my numbers: 5% at the end of the year, 8% end of 2012 (thanks to Nokia).
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Of course NoDo will come out on schedule. If CDMA support is held back then the release of WP7 on Sprint will be held up. I don't believe they'll hold up the release of WP7 on a new carrier just because Samsung is having problems.
with ant particular build on them and when the rollout for upgrade is. Dont be surprised if new phone owners walk out of the store with nodo builds on their phones while current owners are still waiting for the update to be rolled out. I would expect the same for mango...
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What does Microsoft do for Anti-Virus?
Joe.Smetona 4th Mar 2011
...Or haven't they gotten to that point yet?
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@Joe.Smetona
You mean for WP7? Not an emergency. The 3rd party API is well sandboxed and very restrictive. Not likely an easy target for malware. In fact, I doubt we'll see malware anytime soon.
@TheCyberKnight - You'll most likely see malware when people start "jail breaking" WP7 devices and apps are installable from other than the Zune based marketplace. Just like what happened with the iPhone.
Where are the WP7 sales figures? It's nearly five months since the European launch on October 21, 2010.
I think there is a little mixing of Apples and Oranges in what Mary Jo and Paul are hearing. My guess is that "Mango" makes it on new devices in 2011 but that the push of updates to existing devices is delayed by the device manufacturer/carrier cycle. See my blog for more.

http://hal2020.com/2011/03/07/no-windows-phone-7-mango-in-2011-really/
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Worked for me on Samsunf Focus phone. Love the OS.
I just wish ATT would let me update my HTC Surround. They told me they are not distributing this update when I asked about it.
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RE: Windows Phone 7: Will NoDo show? Has Mango gone soft?
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RE: Windows Phone 7: Will NoDo show? Has Mango gone soft?
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