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With Windows coming to ARM, what happens to Windows Embedded Compact?

By | January 7, 2011, 8:38am PST

Summary: With Microsoft acknowledging this week that it is bringing Windows to the lower-power, tablet/slate-friendly ARM processor, I — like a number of others — also am wondering what Microsoft’s longer-term plans are for Windows Compact Embedded.

With Microsoft acknowledging this week that it is bringing Windows to the lower-power, tablet/slate-friendly ARM processor, I — like a number of others — also am wondering what Microsoft’s longer-term plans are for Windows Compact Embedded.

I erroneously predicted last week that Microsoft might show and tell more about its Windows Embedded products at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES). Instead, Embedded got no keynote or press conference love, though the Windows Embedded team did have a presence at the event and on the show floor.

(Microsoft also cancelled this week a scheduled appearance of OEM Chief Steve Guggenheimer at a JP Morgan tech conference at CES, which was slated for January 6. Guggenheimer has talked up in the past Embedded Compact tablets from Microsoft’s OEM partners.)

I’m assuming Microsoft decided to save its Embedded thunder for next week’s National Retail Federation (NRF) show in New York next week, as there are a number of Windows Embedded spokespeople slated to speak at the show.

Windows Compact Embedded — the evolution of Windows CE — is one of several Microsoft embedded operating systems. It is the core, currently, of both the Zune HD operating system, as well as the Windows Phone 7 operating system. Microsoft is supposed to release to manufacturing the Windows Embedded Compact 7 operating system in the first quarter of 2011. Windows Compact Embedded runs on ARM processors today.

Microsoft’s long-term goal is to enable all of its Windows platforms, including its Embedded Compact-based phones, to run the same core/kernel that Windows itself uses. By doing this, Microsoft would cut complexities and improve its developer story. Like the folks over at the “MS Nerd” blog, I’m doubtful this will happen much before Microsoft ships Windows 9 (the 2015/16 timeframe?).

But what happens in the interim? Does Microsoft continue to encourage its PC partners who don’t want to use full-fledged Windows 7 as their slate/tablet operating system to build on top of Windows Embedded Compact? Last year, Microsoft execs, including CEO Steve Ballmer and Guggenheimer, used the terms “Windows tablets” and “Windows slates” to refer to products from Microsoft’s partners that were running Windows and Windows Embedded Compact. But a slate or tablet running Embedded Compact isn’t the same as one running Windows. The GUIs are different and not all Windows apps automatically run on Embedded Compact tablets/slates.

At CES this week, the PCs and tablets/slates that Microsoft execs showed off were all Windows-based, not Windows Embedded Compact ones. (Microsoft officials did post photos via Twitter of some of the company’s Windows Embedded Standard partners who were exhibiting at the show, but these folks were showing off “connected media devices” and set-top boxes running Embedded Standard, not slates or tablets.) Microsoft quietly released in December a test build of Service Pack (SP) 1 update for Windows Embedded Standard 7, which adds RemoteFX support to that platform, so Embedded Standard seems to be alive and kicking….

I’m curious what Microsoft’s near- and longer-term plans are for Windows Embedded Compact. I’d assume it will be around for a while, and that a future version of the Windows Phone OS (Mango or Apollo?) will be built on top of the Embedded Compact 7 operating system once it is completed.

But has Microsoft decided to stop touting Embedded Compact as a good operating system for tablets and slates, instead putting all of its eggs in the Windows basket? If that is the case, I’d say there’s little doubt that the possibility of a Windows Phone OS tablet is DOA. Instead, the most those of us who like the Windows Phone UI can hope is that the MoSH (modern shell) UI for Windows 8 takes a lot from the Windows Phone 7 interface.

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: With Windows coming to ARM, what happens to Windows Embedded Compact?
tomlin21-24319035676893835085146735905770 11th Oct
There is never ever a much better evaluate of what another person reebok jersey is than what he does when he's unquestionably no cost of cost to decide on.
Seems to me it would make sense for Microsoft to get the full Windows Kernel running everywhere. This would make it easier for developers and they can then start to dictate some of the user experience pieces like they're doing on WP7. I for one do not want a WP7 UI on a tablet, what I do want is for Microsoft to really think about how to best utilize the larger screen of tablets instead of just putting a phone UI on a large tablet. So I hope Windows embedded on tablets is dead and WP7 for tablets is dead. In fact in a few years, perhaps Windows Phone will be able to run the exact same code as Windows desktops. So I will be able to dock my Windows Phone into a monitor and instantly have a Windows desktop or tablet. They could store my data in the cloud and use the 4G or 5G(at that time) to pull down my data. hmmm...
@rwalrond - "it would make sense for Microsoft to get the full Windows Kernel running everywhere".

Spot-on!

Finding software and hardware partners willing to dedicate resources to learn how to design, code, build, test and maintain systems built atop the CE driver model etc. is hard.

Finding software and hardware partners willing to dedicate resources to learn how to design, code, build, test and maintain systems built atop the Windows driver model etc. is easy.

Rather than having one OS flavor for Zune, another for XBox, another for phone, another for embedded, another for desktop/server, if Microsoft moves to port the NT kernel and a cleanly componentized OS to phones, XBox, slates, laptops and desktops has nothing but upside for everyone involved.

I believe CE will stick around for a couple more cycles but that it'll eventually get replaced by the Windows kernel and OS components.
in hotter, heavier, thicker, less battery life, not to mention stability problems. Of course they need a touch interface, and Win32 applications are not even appropriate for a tablet.

So, if they do not want to compete in the mobile space, sure, go ahead put a "full Windows Kernel" everywhere. They WILL be able to pick up a few verticals. The Arm processor will help a bit over x86.
@Donnie - do you actually understand what Win32 is?

Win32 is the core native programming API that surfaces all of Windows' features to application developers. COM and OLE are naative component technologies which sit on top of Win32. .NET and the CLR surface Windows' "managed" object-oriented API and also sit on top of Win32.

So, are you really saying that code implemented in C/C++ (and a large number of other languages) compiled into binary executables and libraries is not suitable for running on a tablet?

Your meta point is accurate - Microsoft does indeed need to articulate their story for tablets. Rest assured they'll do so once they have a clear and achievable plan and the supporting technologies and products.
The windows story for mobile devices seems very messed up for the short to medium term. Will this mean that windows mobile phone will also disappear? No wonder developers are sitting on the sidelines.
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Why would it?
Cylon Centurion 7th Jan 2011
@do_not

Microsoft isn't trying to run Windows on phones.
@Cylon Centurion 0005
"Microsoft?s long-term goal is to enable all of its Windows platforms, including its Embedded Compact-based phones, to run the same core/kernel that Windows itself uses."
This strategy also seems a good 5 years too late. Don't know if MS can pull this off, how much will the market have changed in 3-5 years?
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It's just the kernel
Cylon Centurion 7th Jan 2011
@do_not

It won't be the full Windows OS. More than likely WM will soon run on top of the NT kernel.
it could take MS years to make the NT kernel or whatever they mean by "the same core/kernel that Windows itself uses", on tablets, phones, and other mobile devices.
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Not really
Cylon Centurion 9th Jan 2011
Considering Win8 will be here in just over a year.
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the end of the wintel monopoly
banned from zdnet Updated - 7th Jan 2011
as always an amazing analysis by asymco:
http://www.asymco.com/2011/01/06/this-is-the-most-exciting-ces-ever/

yes, people i think we can rejoice, the dark age of computing is coming to an end, the monopolies of microsoft and intel are officially over.
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Really?
statuskwo5 7th Jan 2011
@banned from zdnet Last time I checked Wintel monopoly is still alive and well. Just look at Windows' desktop marketshare! happy
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Why did MS decide to port "full windows" to Arm?
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Intel Yes, Microsoft Not Necessarily
GWriterZ 7th Jan 2011
@banned from zdnet You are correct in one regard. It is almost certainly the end of Intel's monopoly. As I've written here (http://www.adamalthus.com/2011/01/intels-armageddon/) this is almost certainly the beginning of the end for Intel. They get the short end of the stick from all the deals at CES. The same is not true for Microsoft. 'ARMDows' might become the very thing that secures Microsoft's monopoly.
than IE. The world is changing.
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WP7 Interface for Win8
dunraven 7th Jan 2011
I wouldn't hold my breath. You'd expect some cross-pollination (e.g., surfacing information about number of new e-mails, etc., in whatever launch interface is provided) but I think a full-fledged WP7 UI do-over of Windows OS would be too radical a change. There're a lot of legacy customers that don't want it to change too much (training and support costs, reduced productivity, at least for a while).
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Contributr
some think there will be a dual interface
Mary Jo Foley 7th Jan 2011
Hi. Some folks think there will be a dual interface with Win 8: a touch-centric one (MoSH) and a slight evolution of the current Win 7 one for other uses/business... MS is not commenting yet. This sort of sounds plausible to me, though... MJ
@Mary Jo Foley This would be the best situation. Even better - I would like it if when you have a convertible tablet then when you turn it into slate mode then it is touch centric interface but when you are in laptop mode you are in current windows interface. Now to do this they cannot make the two interfaces completely different - they just need to add touch centric to the current desktop.
@Mary Jo Foley - I think the dual-interface scenario makes the most sense.

While tablets are a growing sector of computer users, desktops and laptops will remain the primary computer format used by most people. Most computer users need to type a lot and type quickly. UI's tuned for this scenario are optimized for data density and a mouse or similar will be required for clicking and dragging things around the screen.

Touch-UI's and soft-keyboards are fine for making minor edits and tweeting, but they won't replace real keyboards. Touch-screens work well for horizontally oriented tablets, but try touching a vertical screen for more than an hour and your shoulder and neck fatigue will VERY quickly diminish your enjoyment of vertically oriented touch screens.

If Microsoft was to extend on the Metro UI metaphor for a new UI for Win8 (and possibly WinPhone8) while preserving/upscale most/all WP7 app's, then they could well be onto a good thing. Such a UI would work beautifully on tablets with fingers.
works one way, and works very well. And, by the time MS pulls it off, everybody will be on iPad and Android for tablets, and a new "dual" interface will not exactly generate any excitement.

Remember, the mobile train has already left the station. Microsoft was running along side, trying to jump on, but, fell off.
@Donnie - I couldn't disagree more.

A touch interface does NOT work well for a vertically mounted screen in a sit-at-your-desk type scenario. Fingers do not offer sufficient accuracy - especially when manipulating and positioning things like CAD drawings, form elements, code, spreadsheet cells, presentation elements, etc.

A mouse and keyboard are inappropriate when operating a media center type scenario which is better suited to a remote control.

Tablets, also demand a different user interface mechanism as they generally can be controlled by fingers as tablets are primarily used in a consumption mode.

It's all about the right user interface for the right scenario.
They were all written for larger screens with mouse / keyboard input. They will not work well at all with our without a touch interface. It is time for a clean break, and applications re-coded for a touch interface. It takes about 60 seconds to figure out the iPad and start using it. Win32 on a tablet is dead in the water.
Microsoft appears to have given up on the consumer/media tablet market, at least for the next several years until the arrival of Win 8 on ARM. In the smaller but still lucrative vertical/B2B market, Windows 7 will still be very viable for Panasonic Toughbooks, Motion Computing tablets, ruggedized Lenovos and Dells...that's due to the legacy apps available. Those makers are moving to Android, but the lack of enterprise apps remains a problem. I think Windows Embedded Compact will still be popular in the automotive, set-top box and other connected device markets, pity they are disproportionately invisible compared to the iPad and its ilk.
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Plain and simple - War against Linux
croberts 7th Jan 2011
Linux was clinging to the ARM ecosystem as a safe haven. Now that safe haven is not so certain.

There are a lot of questions.. namely will apps be able to run on ARM and x86... Apple proved you can have dual binaries when they switched from power pc.

I'll toss this out there... with multi core technology, wouldn't it be cool to have a Multi-core ARM but with one of the cores actually being an x86 one? If an x86 architecture app is detected, that core gets powered up and the process gets scheduled there.

The future just got a whole lot more interesting.
Every app in the WP7 marketplace would already run unmodified if tomorrow HTC or Nokia announced new WP7 phones using intel chips. The same will be true with W8 tablets and apps for the tablet marketplace...
What happens to Windows Embedded Handheld OS now with this announcement? After WP7, it's probably the most popular or common flavor of Windows Embedded Compact. Microsoft announced back in June that we would see the successor to Windows Mobile 6.5/Windows Embedded Handheld which will be based on Windows Embedded Compact 7 in the second half of this year. Seems like we should have heard more about this by now, but maybe this roadmap is dead too???
As a .NET developer, I don't know what's next -- the whole Windows CE / Windows Mobile / Windows Embedded Compact / Whatever We're Calling It This Week scenario is in a really bad way right now after the Windows Phone 7 schism.

Many industrial devices run on this platform and are unsupported (read: removed) in Visual Studio 2010, which caught a lot of developers (including me) by surprise, especially since moving to Windows Phone 7 makes no sense as the devices are not phones:

https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/595712/no-support-for-windows-ce-and-compact-framework-development-in-vs2010

It's the third-most voted feature on the Visual Studio section on Microsoft Connect as many businesses are feeling left high and dry.

I think the core of the issue is that not even Microsoft knows what is next. It's like they're throwing every technology they can toward the wall of mobile and will go with whichever one is still sticking after a year or two. For developers, though, that means hoping you haven't chosen the technology that's slid to the floor.
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well said...
rmac_z 7th Jan 2011
@npiaseck
...and the (non-mobile) Windows platform is in a similar mess too. The advice from the WPF team at the last PDC was to start out first with SL and port to WPF if that proves difficult. And if you've a WinForms + WebForms hybrid (the former beauty of .NET), you'll stick with what you've got and not move forward. All because WPF and SL are not one framework and the UI and data approaches are fragmented.
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Not much . . .
CobraA1 7th Jan 2011
Not much - Embedded Compact is for low power devices, and will likely stay that way. Windows 8 ARM will likely be for higher power tablets and phones.

It's not as if every embedded device out there is going to have a 1+ GHz ARM CPU.

Windows CE was running on various embedded devices long beofore smart phones and tablets became popular. I don't think that it's gonna change that much.
Flushed down the toilet.
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Differences between "regular" Windows and the rest
Joe_Raby Updated - 7th Jan 2011
1. Windows "desktop client" (ie. "regular" Windows) isn't componentized, whereas Windows Embedded Standard is.
2. Windows Embedded Compact uses a shared-source platform. You need Visual Studio to compile it to run. Windows desktop client and Embedded Standard (ie. NT) are always precompiled. NT is Microsoft's most important IP, so they keep it secret.
3. NT presently only runs on x86 (talking about RTM releases of course). CE runs on ARM, but it also DOES run on x86 (most people don't know that). CE is also 32-bit only.

So a few questions come up here: if CE is going away with Windows 8, what happens to the shared source licensing system from CE? Will ARM manufacturers have to use precompiled code now, where they didn't before? Or will the ARM architecture include a separate licensing scheme over x86 in this regard (meaning ARM runs a different kernel)? OR, will the x86 version adopt a shared source licensing program too? What becomes of a componentized Windows version for Windows 8?
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It's quite natural and obviously Microsoft won't say anything right now or it might jeopardise WP7 but very obviously Windows Phone OS will at least go away by the time Windows 8/9 arrives. Windows CE will still be made as there are certain markets and devices that need a real-time OS but full Windows will become the focus of everything. It's a good strategy but MS is in trouble UNTIL Windows 8 on ARM actually ships. Secondly, they will HAVE to provide some x86-64 EMULATOR like Apple's Rosetta did for PowerPC.
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RE: With Windows coming to ARM, what happens to Windows Embedded Compact?
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RE: With Windows coming to ARM, what happens to Windows Embedded Compact?
tomlin21-24319035676893835085146735905770 11th Oct
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