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Biggest competition for Windows tablets? Other Windows tablets

By | February 10, 2012, 4:50am PST

Summary: Companies producing tablets know they must compete with the iPad and with Android tablets. The strategy Microsoft has taken for upcoming Windows tablets may have the platform competing with itself.


Microsoft knocked down the screens concealing the Windows on ARM (WOA) version of Windows 8 that will become the mobile version of the platform. While expected to power tablets specifically, we will eventually see WOA on laptops and other mobile devices. Microsoft’s approach to WOA is a good one as a mobile OS needs to be built from the ground up for mobile usage. Special apps are needed to fully leverage the tablet form, and the requirement that WOA apps be written specifically for that is a good thing.

While building a true mobile platform from scratch is a good thing, making it part of the Windows family may end up creating mass confusion in the marketplace. Companies building WOA tablets may find themselves not only competing with the iPad and the army of Android tablets in the market, they may end up competing very heavily with tablets running real Windows 8.

The strategy of making Windows 8 an OS that will handle all types of computing (at least in name) will end up creating competition within the platform that will be fun to watch. Imagine ads for some whiz-bang Intel tablets running Windows 8 with its distinctive Metro interface, making fun of that ARM tablet (with the exact same interface) that “can’t run all of the apps you depend on”. Never mind that those apps are legacy Windows apps that don’t take advantage of the tablet form, at least you can run them on this tablet over here if you want. Why restrict what you can do with that “entry-level” tablet over there when the sky’s the limit with this super tablet?

See also: Windows 8 on ARM to ‘include’ some Office 15 apps; Windows 8 on ARM to launch simultaneously with Windows 8 on Intel; Microsoft gets it right with Windows 8 on ARM, and why Apple should be worried

This will confuse the average consumer shopping for a tablet, and will end up creating a tiered field of Windows tablets. You will have those ARM tablets that can only run special apps at the lower end of the market. Then you’ll have tablets with Intel inside that can do anything you do on a desktop plus run Metro apps. This will result in public perception that WOA is Windows Lite, Intel is powerful even on tablets, and pricing will be affected.

Don’t believe for a minute that consumers will pay as much for a WOA tablet with its restrictions as they will for an Intel tablet with real Windows 8. That will result in Intel tablets selling for higher prices than those little WOA things. This will backfire as expensive tablets of any ilk do not sell well in today’s market. Rather than competing with the other platforms, Windows tablets will end up competing largely with other Windows tablets. Mass confusion in the market will result.

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James Kendrick has been using mobile devices since they weighed 30 pounds, and has been sharing his insights on mobile technology for almost that long.

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Biography

James Kendrick

James Kendrick has been using mobile devices since they weighed 30 pounds, and has been sharing his insights on mobile technology for almost that long. Prior to joining ZDNet, James was the Founding Editor of jkOnTheRun, a CNET Top 100 Tech Blog that was acquired by GigaOM in 2008 and is now part of that prestigious tech network. James' writing has appeared in many print publications: Smartphone and Pocket PC Magazine, Information Week and Laptop Magazine to name a few. James' coverage of the mobile technology sector has regularly appeared in the New York Times, Salon.com and CNN/ Fortune online. Not just a writer, James has filmed numerous video reviews and how-tos that have garnered well over a million viewers. He has appeared on local news segments and been interviewed by the Associated Press on mobile technology topics. Additionally, James has been podcasting about mobile technology for years.

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You do have a vivid imagination
Mister Spock 12th Feb
@Tony Burzio.
But then you may not have understood that this is not a fantasy site.
Exactly what I always thought. Windows on ARM shouldn't have been named Windows, but something like simply "Microsoft Metro" tablet.

Then you could have the full x86/x64 Windows 8 tablet/laptop with a label saying "can run Metro applications".

And of course, for WOA to sell, it will have to beat the iPad in price.
@lepoete73 Or indeed shouldn't exist at all, they perhaps should have created a "big screen" version of WP7 (like Apple did when they created "iOS" from what was iPhone OS).

This is a confusing mess.
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A bit of a warning, Jeremy
kenosha77a 10th Feb
@jeremychappell

I can recall the anti-iPad sentiment from our pro Windows and Android ZDNet Talkback posters prior to the iPad introduction. (And, surprisingly, those sentiments were unaltered despite the mounting evidence countering their arguments for many months after the initial iPad launch.)

What I'm saying is - let's see and read the WOA tablet reviews after those products have been introduced before jumping to conclusions.

Personally, I believe a WOA tablet will be a fine software and hardware product. But I will wait until I actually have "hands on" experience before committing to an official POV.
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This confuses you jeremy?
toddybottom_z 10th Feb
@jeremychappell
Are you confused when you download an iPad only app and it won't run on your iPhone?

I'm surprised, you come across as being smarter than this.
  • Flagged
@toddybottom_z

There are not too many iPad only apps, Todd. Chances are, if the app is released for the iPad it will also be coded to run on the iPhone or iPod Touch as well. Just saying.
@lepoete73 is should be called Windows Tablet 8 Series OS. If they???re going to have one for Desktop/laptop, one for phones, and yet another one for tablets. Name them properly, so not to confuse people.
@toddbottom if Apple making 40% is bad (according to the Windows fanboys), anything above that must be worse. Simple logic dictates that what is good (or bad) for one is good (or bad) for all. There is no it is bad for Apple to make 40% profit margins, but great for Microsoft to make 85%+ profit margins.
@Joel-r
" if Apple making 40% is bad (according to the Windows fanboys), "

Take that up with the Windows fanboys, if you can find any. Since you replied to ME and not a Windows fanboy, your claim that I believe 40% is bad is a strawman and a lie. It is great for Apple to make 40% profit. It is even greater for Microsoft to make 85% profit. If Apple could find a way to make 85% margins on its products, I'm sure it would love to. However, the fact is that people probably aren't willing to pay more than $1,000 for an iPad. It doesn't provide that much value. People are willing to pay hundreds of dollars for Windows though because it provides them that much value.

Like I said, good for Apple, great for Microsoft.
@lepoete73
"And of course, for WOA to sell, it will have to beat the iPad in price."

Why? Is Apple not profitable because they don't beat Dell in price? Windows doesn't beat OS X in price and yet Microsoft sells far more Windows than Apple sells OS X. It is all about value. If people feel WOA offers more value than iPad, they will pay more. If people feel the MacBook offers more value than some $400 Dell, they will pay more. People clearly feel Windows offers more value than OS X so they pay more to get the better OS.
@toddybottom_z How is costing three time more, beating Apple on price? Or are you saying that ripping off consumers is the best thing to do. Even if you factor in the OEM price for Windows, they are still over charging for Windows. Remember the OEMs make the computers, not Microsoft. If Microsoft made computers they would cost $5,00 to start, so Microsoft could maintain their 85%+ profit margins. Now if Microsoft can get rid of that pesky Apple, and that other pest Linux, They could go into the hardware business, and really make a killing.
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Hold on Joel-r
toddbottom 10th Feb
"How is costing three time more, beating Apple on price? Or are you saying that ripping off consumers is the best thing to do."

MacBook Pros cost 3 times (at least) the price of inexpensive Windows laptops and yet they sell very well. So no, you don't have to beat the competition on price in order to do well. You have to provide them with more value. Or are you saying that ripping off consumers by charging 3 times more for a MacBook Pro is the best thing to do? Even if you factor in the faster CPU, Apple is still overcharging for the MacBook Pro.

"so Microsoft could maintain their 85%+ profit margins"

So what is the "right" profit margin? We know that razor thin profit margins are "bad". You are now implying that 85% profit margins are bad. Let me guess, 40% profit margin is the "right" profit margin? What a coincidence that Apple makes 40% profit margin.
@toddybottom_z And there are lower spec Windows laptop that cost as much as a MacBook Pro. So you really don???t have a valid point. Microsoft charges what is considered Monopoly prices, because that can. Even with oversight, Microsoft was able to purchase the right politicians, to protect their business model. I see them starting to act more aggressively than ever before. Expect the FUD campaigns, and proxy battles to jump to a whole new level..
"Microsoft charges what is considered Monopoly prices, because that can"

Apple charges monopoly prices for the iPad. What's your point? Why don't you come right out and say it.

"I, Joel-r, believe that any company that makes less than 40% profit margin is bad and any company that makes more than 40% profit margin is also bad. Only Apple makes the "right" profit margin."

The truth is that Microsoft charges what the market will bear, just like Apple does. The market will pay more for something that has more value. It is why the market pays more for MacBook Pros. It is also why the market pays more for Windows. Windows brings more value than OS X does. I'm not sure why this needs to be explained to you.
@toddbottom The truth is that Microsoft charges what the market will bear, just like Apple does. The market will pay more for something that has more value. It is why the market pays more for MacBook Pros. It is also why the market pays more for Windows. Windows brings more value than OS X does. I'm not sure why this needs to be explained to you.

Microsoft gouges customers as the side effect of being an abusive monopolist, Now that the oversight has ended expect prices to star o go up even higher. If Microsoft can gain a monopoly position in mobile, expect prices to go up on mobile devices.
@lepoete73: ... that's exactly what they're doing. Expect to see Windows itself start to lose its legacy apps as Metro becomes the primary OS over time. I think they've seen where Apple is going and are trying to beat Apple to the goal.
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I agree with the first part
toddbottom 10th Feb
@vulpine@...
"Expect to see Windows itself start to lose its legacy apps as Metro becomes the primary OS over time."

Yes.
@vulpine@...

I sure hope Metro won't become the primary OS. I'm not interested in full screen apps.

There is a reason why it's called Windows, because applications run in windows... Full screen was DOS, I don't want to go back there.

Full screen might be ok on tablets too, but tablets are always going to be a secondary market to me... the desktop is my world.

If there is no window anymore, don't call it Windows.
You are looking too deep into this. A manufacturer will be selling Microsoft Windows 8 on the desktop then WOA on a mobile device like a tablet. There is going to be a clear distinction between the two. It may even work out better for Microsoft and its manufacturers because now they can have Windows everywhere. At home on the PC or on the go with the tablet. That's not competing, that is doubling the sales.
@Loverock Davidson-

What will confuse some is that they will wonder why they can't install on the Windows 8 tablet their applications that run on their Windows 8 laptop/desktop, it's got the same interface so for most it will mean it's the same thing.

I deal a lot with non-technical users and a lot of people get confused easily, even on current systems since Microsoft decided to pre-label most of it's application with the word "Windows" like "Windows Live Messenger", "Windows Internet Explorer"... since then I've got tons of "Windows crashed" calls when it's just an application.
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Of course it will confuse some
toddybottom_z Updated - 10th Feb
@lepoete73
There are plenty of people who are confused about not being able to run their OS X apps on their iPads.

Then there are many who hate all things Microsoft who will feign confusion because it serves their purposes. These are the same people who claim to get confused because they have to click the "Start" button to shut down the machine. I wonder how many Windows machines stay on forever because there are millions of people who don't know how to turn off their computers. They click on "Start" 50 times a day to run their programs and not once do they notice the "Shutdown" button. If we listen to certain ZDNet posters, we have to believe that no one can figure out this incredibly confusing UI.
@lepoete73 what many here miss, is the average user couldn???t tell what OS is on their computer, let alone what version. The small percentage that know they have windows cannot even tell which SP they are running. I have run into that on numerous occasions.
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Interesting reply coming from you Joel-r
toddbottom Updated - 10th Feb
"the average user couldnt tell what OS is on their computer"

And yet you are shouting every chance you get that Microsoft has chosen the wrong name for their unreleased WOA OS. Like you said, the average user doesn't care what the OS is called. The average user is also not confused that legacy desktop apps won't run on tablets or phones, even when companies like Apple say that the iPhone runs OS X.
@toddbottom are you that oblivious? If the average consumer see Windows 8, they will not look tree if it???s Windows 8 desktop edition, or Windows 8 tablet edition for ARM. But still the two should be labeled something different to minimize the confusion.
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Are you that oblivious?
toddbottom 10th Feb
"If the average consumer see Windows 8, they will not look tree if its Windows 8 desktop edition, or Windows 8 tablet edition for ARM"

What are you talking about? If the average consumer sees iOS app, they will not look to see if it is iOS phone edition or iOS tablet edition. Wait a second, they do exactly that. The iTunes store makes it very clear which versions the app will run on and which devices. And when I go to install an app on my iPhone, it won't even show me iPad only apps. So why do you believe that when I go to install an app on my WOA tablet, Microsoft would show me Windows 8 desktop apps?

Will there be some people confused by this? Sure, the exact same people who are currently very confused about why they can't install OS X apps or iPad apps on their iPhones. I guess that is why Apple currently sells no iOS devices because the whole system is so confusing. Wait, Apple sells a lot of iOS devices. Weird.
@toddbottom "So why do you believe that when I go to install an app on my WOA tablet, Microsoft would show me Windows 8 desktop apps?"

The difference here is that all iPhone and iPad applications are available only in the App Store. For Windows 8, x86/x64 desktop applications will still be available everywhere like it's always been, only Metro apps will be mandatory to go through the store, so there is a source of confusion here, someone will buy at Bestbuy or download from a site a "Windows 8" application and then wonder why it won't install on WOA.
After all it will come with a keyboard and some sort of mouse/trackpad. Maybe an ultrabook. The other question is what about battery usage? Isn't that the current reason for going to ARM? I"m just not sure if someone requires the use of legacy apps where a tablet of any sort would be the answer?

Pagan jim
By the time Microsoft gets a tablet to market that even works at all, Apple will have an Apple store in every department store, electronics store and mall in America. Game over Dude!
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That is good for MS
Nihon8888 Updated - 11th Feb
@Tony Burzio luckily America is not the world and given current economic conditions may not even be the largest economy in the not to distant future. Luckily MS (and Apple) have a broader vision.
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You do have a vivid imagination
Mister Spock 12th Feb
@Tony Burzio.
But then you may not have understood that this is not a fantasy site.
Ummm.... sorry, but no manufacturer is going to run ads touting his intel based machine as better than ARM based Windows 8 tablets that "cant run all of the apps you depend on." Why? Because these same manufacturers will also be selling ARM based tablets. Why would they dump on their own product line?

Much more likely is that they'll be promoting their ARM tablets as offering the "true Microsoft Office" experience that iOS and Android don't. And that's partly because I expect the Windows 8 ARM versions of Office to be more robust than their iOS and Android counterparts.
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Designs are not free
Robert Hahn 10th Feb
    Because these same manufacturers will also be selling ARM based tablets.
That could be a much tougher internal sale than you think. The engineering cost to do a new ARM-based tablet design is well over a million dollars. Same for a new Intel-based design.

If you go in front of the Executive Committee with a proposal to spend $2 million to do both, you are going to get some very hard questions about why anyone considering a Windows tablet would go for the ARM version at all. Unless there is going to be a very substantial price difference between the two, wouldn't most people spring for the Intel version and put aside any fears about what it might or might not run? I think that will be a huge issue in corporations... why even mess with an ARM tablet if an Intel version exists that will run the company's internal systems?

Unless an OEM already has a -successful- Android tablet business based on ARM devices (in which case their first move will be to port WOA to their existing design), I don't see why any of them would double their exposure by designing two incompatible tablet hardware platforms.
@Robert Hahn "why even mess with an ARM tablet if an Intel version exists that will run the company's internal systems?"

The ARM version will have battery life on its side and will very likely be cheaper. They might interest those who are actually considering the iPad or an Android tablet. It seems also that Office will already be on the WOA when you buy it but not on the Intel version, for Intel you'll have to buy Office like actually.

And because it's Microsoft, it will probably integrate well when connecting on a Microsoft domain network and most likely be manageable by IT policies.

I can see why some might be interested, but only if the price is right.
I totally agree with your assement. I can't wait to see what happens! Its funny the people who criticize existing tablets as failed toys where they couldn't figure out how to get right a no-compromise desktop interface, but here comes MS to save the day wink. Its almost like making fun of a phone because its not a full powered PC. No one would do that, but a tablet is really no different to me.
will push the WOA tablets and all android tablets into the zero margin category after 18-24 months. This is all great news for intel and it's pretty perfectly timed for their new soc's that match arm on power and dominate them perfwise.
@Johnny Vegas

Intel tablets cheaper than iPads and Android tablets? I highly doubt that.

Remember that full "Windows" is the value proposition for Microsoft and OEMs, so they will foolishly mark the price higher. No compromise full Windows, all the bells and whistle of a PC but on a tablet form factor (just like every other win tablets we've seen going back to 2001). But that value proposition will not be so obvious to the consumer, who has already divided "tablet" from traditional "PC" in their minds. And therefor won't see the need to spend $300-400 more.
@dave95.

For me a Windows tablet on Intel will need to be a convertible laptop that the screen flips between tablet and laptop mode, I don't see me with a regular tablet running Intel Windows, for Intel, I'll expect keyboard and mouse for legacy apps.

Windows on ARM though, regular tablet would work for me as I won't be expecting legacy applications which were designed for keyboard and mouse.

So considering this, Intel tablet/laptop will be more expansive than iPads but much more useful so worth it.
Android and Windows OEMs will likely go Price War with their phone and tablet products. Which will be fun to watch from the sidelines I think:). There is no avoiding a Price War.


Pagan jim
and they'll be offering "two for one low price".

So, Best Buy could offer an Intel based tablet, and an Arm based tablet, for a low price of, say, $800. So, they could be named the "WInt" and the "WARM" tablets, and people will have the capabilities of both technologies for one price, with the best OS on the planet inside both.
@adornoe@...

Don't stop dreaming. wink
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It's bound to happen.
adornoe@... 11th Feb
You'll see.

In fact, within a year's time, those tablets will be even cheaper, and the price for the two "different" Windows 8 tablets will be even lower than $800.
i08 anyone? Seriously, this is much ado about nothing. If the WOA platform comes with REAL MS Office (15 or whatever), it will be going head to head against iPad and winning converts in the business world simply because you don't have to compromise on Office compatibility, and browsing network shares in the File Explorer beats ANYTHING available for file (mis)management on iOS. Metro can give you all the iPad eyecandy, while desktop delivers the business goods. Only those technogeek dudes like me, or fossils stuck with legacy software which demands Windows x86, will migrate to the Intel high ground, much as I do today with Samsung Series 7 Slate, or the HP/Lenovo convertibles.

In fact, if you ask any non-fanboy about their iPad, their NUMBER ONE complaint is Office incompatibility. Everything mashes the Office files like converting back and forth between Word and Wordperfect in the bad old days. NUMBER TWO is lack of a real file system so you don't have to store files with the App, or go through the Dropbox/Sugarsync/iTunes mashup of file transfers, not to mention no real network share browsing. I think the market will quickly fragment into three layers over teh next two years: Tier One will be cheapo Android toys for reading and consumption (including Kindle/Nook etc); Tier Two the iPad and WOA tablets battling it out between consumers and prosumer (business) users; and Tier Three the war between "full feature" Intel tablets and the Apple Air forces. Dragging behind in these wars will be the remaining MacBook and Intel notebook brigades, fighting over the age old BMW vs Chevy wars.
@dksmidtx : ... are probably already using Android in one way or another, don't you? While I do agree that we'll see much better compatibility between WinARM and Windows desktop/laptops, you simply won't see the full Office suite working the same way on both platforms. What you will see is much easier file transfer between them in the same way that iWorks files transfer almost seamlessly between iOS and OS X devices.

Personally, I expect to see tablets gradually grow in processing power while remaining much more efficient in battery use--perhaps even to the extent of fully replacing laptops over time. The desktop, however, isn't going away any time soon, even though its form factor may change.
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Hmmmm
Gisabun 10th Feb
Biggest competition to Windows tablets are other Windows tablets. It's like there are too many Linux distros out there [even at 1.2% OS market share] or too many Android phones [versus just a few Apple models].
I tend to agree the end game here is to have developers make Metro apps their new defacto standard and phase out the traditional desktop apps over time http://windowstabletcentral.com
Let's get one out the door first, shall we? Its release is still at least 6 months away. Plenty can change in that amount of time.

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