ie8 fix

Real work doesn’t require Windows, but could benefit from it

By | February 8, 2012, 8:46am PST

Summary: Mobile devices and platforms can be used in most work scenarios that make the necessity for Windows for end users less critical.

I have been following a particular web debate with interest as it crosses areas I find particularly interesting. ZDNet colleague Steven Vaughan-Nichols started the discussion with his treatise that Windows 8 will be dead on arrival. Another colleague, David Gewirtz, responded to Steven with his reasoning that Windows is necessary to do real work, so Windows 8 is going to be just fine. Both guys make some valid points, but overlook a use-case for mobile devices that make the argument less clear.

See also: 5 reasons why Windows 8 will be dead on arrivalWhy Windows 8 matters for real work, and so will Windows 9

Both Steven and David make excellent points and rather than rehash them I advise taking a few moments and reading each of the articles listed above. Steven’s contention is that Windows is no longer needed for end users, and he’s provided some valid arguments to support that premise. David’s response is that real work, e. g. video editing, requires OS horsepower that only a real platform like Windows can provide. I agree with both guys, at least some of the points each present. But my real-world experience tells me that the conclusions they reach are no longer clear.

My experience as a practicing geophysicist for years is the basis for this response to the debate. I worked independently with big oil companies to generate 3D seismic images of the subsurface to help understand the complex layering of the Earth. This work involved complex data processing of billions of discrete data points using geophysical principles to make sure the resulting image was accurate.

To process these massive data volumes, huge clusters of Intel x86 processors were employed in parallel to work as super-computers. These clusters could consist of hundreds of thousands of CPUs working together to provide the massive computing power needed for such a big task. These clusters ran special software to do the seismic data processing, either running under Linux or Windows.

Teams of geophysicists/analysts worked together to guide this complex process which could take months even with such massive computing power. The teams would interact with the cluster through highly specialized software designed to control and inspect the complex process throughout the life of the project. These analysts used simple Windows PCs to do this, running a Citrix environment as a virtual window into the massive servers.

Basically the end user environment was a dumb client, simply a screen into this massive server environment. Even though these analysts were controlling a tremendous process, a very expensive one at that, they were not using a complex computer to do so. The terminals were just that, a thin client.

These clients ran either Linux or Windows, it didn’t matter which. They simply logged into the big server where everything happened in real-time. This is significant to this Windows 8 debate because there is no work that could be considered “real work” as David mentions more than this seismic imaging. And he is right, a real OS on the server is mandatory to control such heavy computational lifting. But that is just on the server.

The end users in this example using thin clients don’t need a real OS, Windows or otherwise, to function just fine. Any mobile OS with the proper virtual machine environment can tap into any complex system, and gain the benefit or doing it from anywhere. In my geophysical career, I tested such a setup using a touch tablet and the benefits of adding portability and touch control were immense. I didn’t need Windows to do this, either. So I think with proper cloud environments David’s assertion that real platforms are required to do real work is not accurate, at least not on the end-user side of the equation.

There are already good virtual machine applications for Android and iOS to allow tapping into more powerful computers from mobile devices as needed. I suspect they will be brought over to Windows 8, hopefully the ARM version, to allow any mobile device running Windows 8 to tap into any cloud-based system, even those running full Windows (not mobile version).

Now before Steven can start gloating, I have to put forth that I am extremely excited by the prospect of Windows 8 on ARM mobile systems. I can see them bringing a level of sophistication to the example above by leveraging Windows on the thin client side, amping the mobile client up a notch to add further capability on the end-user side. This could bring the ability of running local apps specially created to perform specific tasks, while retaining the ability to tap remotely into the super computer environment described. A level of processing power never seen before could be implemented with Windows 8 on ARM devices, and this has me giddy at the implications.

So I am not waffling as I both agree and disagree with Steven and David in this debate that Windows 8 is/isn’t going to do well. I do agree that the advance of the mobile OS in recent years makes Windows less necessary for lots of things, but I see specific things Windows 8 brings to the mobile table that might offset that for some uses. Like many things in the mobile space this isn’t cut-and-dried, rather it will continue evolving in ways we can’t predict.

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James Kendrick has been using mobile devices since they weighed 30 pounds, and has been sharing his insights on mobile technology for almost that long.

Disclosure

James Kendrick

James Kendrick has no affiliations or relationships that need to be disclosed.

Biography

James Kendrick

James Kendrick has been using mobile devices since they weighed 30 pounds, and has been sharing his insights on mobile technology for almost that long. Prior to joining ZDNet, James was the Founding Editor of jkOnTheRun, a CNET Top 100 Tech Blog that was acquired by GigaOM in 2008 and is now part of that prestigious tech network. James' writing has appeared in many print publications: Smartphone and Pocket PC Magazine, Information Week and Laptop Magazine to name a few. James' coverage of the mobile technology sector has regularly appeared in the New York Times, Salon.com and CNN/ Fortune online. Not just a writer, James has filmed numerous video reviews and how-tos that have garnered well over a million viewers. He has appeared on local news segments and been interviewed by the Associated Press on mobile technology topics. Additionally, James has been podcasting about mobile technology for years.

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RE: Real work doesn't require Windows, but could benefit from it
YetAnotherBob 11th Feb
What the Author is saying is that more and more of the 'real work' is being done on large machines, or collections of machines. The information that these machines then collate and work on is viewed on local machines that are much less capable than the larger remote machines.

In an interconnected world, it doesn't really matter where the large machine is, in the next room, or a continent away. Having a capable Web Browser is probably the only requirement. Yes, Windows can do that. So can Linux or iOS. An iPad or a Galaxy Tab, if it is enough for the job is fine for getting the work done.

For something like CAD, you will need a better equiped system than a 7 or 10" pad. But it isn't windows that does the job, it's the program that is running. If a central server was doing the mapping, then the local could be a smaller machine. Still, for CAD or similar operations, it's much more a question of the input devices than it is the power of the machine. I was doing professinal CAD work ten years ago on a K-6 300 MHZ machine. Most of the newer tablets have more horsepower than that machine had. It isn't so much a question of the machines power as it is of the input devices sensitivity.

All of the major OS's have enough power for the I/O. Linux, iOS, Windows. For the backends, you are usually talking about different OS set anyway. Linux is the only one on the desktop that can run the truly high end machines. It's much more a Unix world there. Windows peters out when you get more than 64 way machines.

But, most of the readers of this site will never need that kind of processing power.

When or if you do, then it won't matter what you are running. It will be compatible with the systems that do the real heavy lifting.
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On the contrary
Tim Acheson 8th Feb
The opposite of the headline is true.

That's why iPads in the workplace are generally older executives, middle-mangers and "ideas" people -- folks who don't really do any real work.
@Tim Acheson ... then the work is real enough for me:) Still would you define Real Work for me?

Pagan jim
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Define what a real tablet is
William Farrel Updated - 8th Feb
@James Quinn
I guess it's subjective, but you can't fault someone for saying they don't feel that a tablet can do real work, if they feel that 3D Cad design, high computational fields, ect is "real work",

"work" is equated with a higher intensity physical or mental attributes, as opposed to somebody who pushes a button on a robot to have it dig a ditch.
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Easy.
Userama 8th Feb
@James Quinn
"Real work" is whatever you do with Windows on the desktop. wink
@James Quinn

Remeinds me of the stereotypical platoon sergeant: "Don't call me 'sir', I work for a living!"... implying that the officers (i.e. the ones called "sir") didn't do "real" work.

It's the age-old debate of who's more important to a business: the guy at the top making the "hard" strategic (& maybe even some tactical) decisions for the company as a whole, the low-level "peons" doing the "real" work (whether physical labor or more office-related) that makes those decisions & goals become reality, or the mid-level managers & supervisors that act as conduits between the 2 extremes. While there are proponents for each level, the true answer is that each level is required in a symbiotic relationship: a CEO can't be successful without people to carry out their "grand vision", while "regular" workers won't be as productive or successful if they're not working in conjunction with an overall corporate plan.
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Userama: good joke. Now seriously
toddybottom_z 8th Feb
""Real work" is whatever you do with Windows on the desktop."

Let's change it around a bit so you don't get defensive.

""Real work" is whatever you do with OS X on the desktop."

Given the fact that Apple is selling record breaking numbers of Macs every quarter, why are so many people spending hundreds, sometimes thousands more on Macs when they could buy an iPad and do "Real Work"? Clearly all those Mac purchasers are wasting their money since an iPad is a 100% replacement for a Mac, right?

If an iPad is not a 100% replacement for a Mac, please list the reasons why someone should buy a Mac instead of an iPad. Please make sure the reasons are valid for millions of people every quarter because that is how many Macs are sold each quarter.
@James Quinn
Simple, real work is what happens when people get up early in the morning and bust their a$$'s all day and stay late, work weekends, etc. They tend to be Republicans, and not Democrats. They tend to NOT vote for people such as Barrack Obama, unlike yourself, of which that sits there at home and doesn't do any work. Microsoft Windows is the same, it's like the republicans of the world. Apple i*.*, on the other hand, are like the democrats of the world, never doing any real work, they're playing angry birds, or updating their facebook status, or listing to iTunes, watching Broke Back Mountain, etc ,etc ,etc....
@mikroland2.0 ...Thanks for the chuckle!!! Doesn't the fat guy on the radio use Mac's? Rush I think is his name? Isn't he Republican? Does he work? Cause he sure don't look it:P

Pagan jim
This blogger is talking about server based systems. And how smartphones etc. can be part of such a distrubuted system. But far and away the mobile device market is still on the consumer side, and not inside the workplace.
Cloud computing and smart devices are no where near the norm in the enterprise today. Look around the world. The majority of work inside the enterprise is still being done on good old PCs and Macs. (Jim, I thought you'd like I give Mac equal time, but I only refer to the hardware, they are of course running Windows 7 in the enterprise more often than not unless for niche use in advertising or journalism etc.)
When did the enterprise suddenly become a place where BIG IRON has made it's comeback and thin clients etc are the technology of the day?
Show some data to back this, please. I can only say what I see. In the healthcare industry PCs (and Macs) are still dominating by a very high percentage. Sure there is some use of tablets bedside, as I said in another post but Apple is not winning that battle, they have too many weaknesses on the network. they are built for consumer consumption, much like a TV. Not a lot different. You can't really type on them for starters. But regardless, Cloud computing is the buzz word of the day, but we all know the buzz word of the day, esp. in magazines and sites like ZDNET, that means it's about 10 years or more off from mainstream adoption in any appreciable numbers.
Can anyone argue that? Where are the businesses being run by tablets and smartphones by the majority of the workforce, or even thin clients connecting to backend servers foregoing any client/server architecture?
I don't see it and I don't see it happening in any big way for at least another decade and who knows what will happen by then.
Oh, I work on main st. USA.

thanks.
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@xuniL_z I can't give details, but my 200,000-employee company has converted 90% of all users (targetting 100%) to VDI; everything runs on the server and we have tiny devices which access our virtual sessions. Coincidentally, these tiny Devon boxes run Linux.
Mr. Kendrick, I sense you are beyond the likes of SJVN and in my humble opinion are only hurting your own career by associating yourself with him.
He's made a career of bashing Windows openly and viciously. And now he's at ZDnet and has been put on a leash and has to sound just a little bit objective but that doesn't erase the reality of it.
As I"ve said, SJVN totally has forgotten the enterprise where Windows, believe it or not, still has a huge stronghold, when making his DOA "predictions".
Windows 7 has been the FASTEST selling OS in history. What makes you or anyone else think that even though that is true, things have suddenly changed, just in the last year or maybe the last few months and now businesses are going to drop their MS infrastructures? Really?
My prediction is that SJVN will be wrong, just like he has been for all of his career. He's been preaching the demise of MS for ages now. You know, anyone can predict the fall of something, or someone, or some company and eventually they are going to be right. Nothing lasts forever. But SJVN is going to have to eat it once again, has he has over and over and over again. What kind of journalism is that? Why not get someone who is ojective and in touch with the mainstream?
@xuniL_z
Although this comic is about the economy, it can be used to demonstrate your point. happy
SMBC
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2514#comic
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I have to say
Michael Alan Goff 8th Feb
This article pretty much sums up how I'm starting to think. It is nice to read a more moderate view on things.
excepted definition of "Real Work"? This phrase seems to be the sticking point. Is real work for one suppose to be for all? If I do something on a smartphone and or tablet that I get paid for is that not real work? If I keep working on my book using an iPad at the local coffee shop is that not work? Who decided the reality of work? Who defines such and what is it? Also what is fake work if there is real work it only follows that their has to be fake work right? Who makes this stuff up? Does a doctor using a tablet not do real work with it? How about the guy in a warehouse lugging around a tablet?

Pagan jim
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Can you rephrase the question in English?
toddybottom_z Updated - 8th Feb
@James Quinn
"Will somebody please explain just what is the universally excepted definition of "Real Work"?"

I don't know what a "universally excepted definition" is so before we can answer your question, you'll have to explain to us what it means. Is it a definition that is different on different planets? Is it a definition that only counts outside of our universe? Or is it that you don't know the difference between "excepted" and "accepted"?

Todd shakes his head at the sad state of adult eduction in the US. We have failed people like James Quinn. It isn't his fault, it is our fault. How sad. I have pity on people like him.
@toddybottom_z lol...
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Luckily I'm not some fluffy yank, so am immune to such critiques.
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@James Quinn
mine is something that goes beyond the use of a phone or tablet as a viewer or email device.
Sure the supervisor sitting at the front of the room with his feet on the desk watching the workers do their thing is "work", but I'm sure you would describe him to a friend like "he doesn't do any real work, he just sits there watching everybody else work!"
@William Farrel .. you get paid for.

Pagan jim
@James Quinn, you do have a good way of using rhetoric to try and steer any topic in your direction, but are you saying, esp. with your disabilities, you could do real work toward writing a book on an ipad, vs. a lightweight laptop with keyboard and the tactile feel of the keys? Seriously? I don't care if the laptop is apple or HP or Dell, or whatever, that is moot. ipad, as the itouch, are consumption devices, not productivity devices, by and large. Sure there are "things" you can do that would be considered work.
But let's just say, for the majority of people who use computing devices in the world today, can the ipad or itouch replace the Mac or PC?
In all of the thousands of sister sites in our healthcare realm still using PCs/Macs at a 99% level, I can't imagine it's the only sector like that? And Pad are catching on bigtime in healthcare for bedside usage, bu the ipad has not been the choice due to major restrictions in it's abiliity to talk to the network. Convertibles and Android devices are actually getting more traction in that space.
@xuniL_z .. or simple editing. Does not require a keyboard to do things like email and some story work.

Pagan jim
Thank you.
I rest my case.
happy
@James Quinn
Real work is the opposite of playing. I had a young man tell me a few days ago that he does real wqork with his iphone. When asked What? He said he could go to starbucks and read his email. Hopes this helps!
I can't tell you how much I've benefited from Microsoft Windows. Its everywhere, its all around us. SJVN just needs to accept that Windows is here to stay and it is what people use to get real work done. You have to really go out of your way to avoid Windows to do work, and then that isn't worth the time to do.
I agree that tablets will take some of the need for a desktop and desktop OS away, but that there will still be a need/desire to have some sort of desktop environment at which to work.

I'm not sure supercomputer number crunching is a good example, though, as there is very little user interaction with that. Things like video editing, writing (especially while researching on the web), animation, engineer/architectural design work, etc., I think are much better examples of where a powerful desktop system would be needed.

And even if tablets get powerful enough to do that sort of work, as I'm sure they will in the not-too-distant future, people will still want to have large screens, a variety of input devices and other accessories that won't work well on just a tablet. My guess is that in a few years the tablet with a docking station will probably become more the norm, so that you can have all the input and output devices when you need or want them, but can go mobile without needing to buy a second device with a different OS.
I think most blog posts about the future of Windows go from one extreme to the other. some way, it will sell stronger than ever before, while the other end asserts that it is going to vanish. Deep down we all know that Windows 8 desktop market will shrink a little bit because fewer consumers are going to need them as personal devices. There will still be millions using them. But it won't vanish, just as mainframes haven't.
Its kind of annoying to see so many blog posts oscillating between extremes on such a simple and visible market trend.
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Citing a limited ...
P. Douglas 8th Feb
... use case does not make your point. If what you said was broadly true, then Google's Chrome OS would be taking off.

MS has no choice but to move Windows to touch, because sales of traditional PCs in the consumer market is stalling - and even collapsing in certain markets.

news.cnet. com/8301-13924_3-57372839-64/apple-chortles-as-the-pc-market-melts-down-in-u.k-france/?tag=mncol;1n

Windows PCs needs a user experience re-invigoration, and making Windows touch oriented is the only way I see this happening. This is history repeating itself, when die-hards were screaming against moving away from the DOS Command Line Interface (CLI) to the GUI. These guys were all nice and comfy with the status quo, and didn't appreciate the market expansion the new simplified user experience would bring. Windows' GUI experience cannot compete with the iPad's touch experience for much longer, before Windows sustains a broad collapse in the consumer market. Also I believe one way or another, businesses will succumb to the touch interface in 3 to 6 years. Therefore all this pining for things to remain the same by guys like Steven Vaughan-Nichols, is of no value to anyone.
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Seriously
ego.sum.stig@... 8th Feb
Have you any idea how annoying touch is on a large screen?

And for that matter how useless speaking to a computer is for the most part. People don't speak the way they want text to be constructed for the most part. It just sounds bizarre. That and it's hugely annoying if there's one or more people babbling away at their computer at the same time. It's far more efficient to have (or be) a typist who can hammer out a few million words per second accurately than to wax lyrical with your actual own voice. I'd add that autocorrect is not your friend, ever.
clients and beackend clouds. For the people who get things done in business, ie not just surf the web or write about what others have done, windows is the work horse. The 99% of whats being done isnt going to be moved to any cloud backend in the next 5 or even 10 years.
Everybody talks about "real work" and some are not sure of what it means.

Ok, I think the expression is not clear, but I assume it means real computer work like programming, CAD, big data crunching systems, etc. Of course upper management people are still doing real work but not in the computer sense, they could accomplish it on paper like in the past, so their jobs are not requiring real computer work as the expression should mean.
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RE: Virtual environments
josh.amacker@... 8th Feb
Windows 8 is confirmed to ship with Hyper-V on clients.
You can of course define "real" work by any work for which you are compensated in some fashion. But for the purposes of this discussion people are using the "work" work to mean "task." So the question then becomes, "do real task require Windows?" A doctor or nurse can use a tablet to walk the floor and update the charts of the patients on their ward, but when they have to actually ENTER that data on a spreadsheet, manipulate it, compose correspondence to payers or do data intensive diagnostic work they are going to sit down at a Mac or a PC and sync or email the data on the tablet to a desktop OS to make it usable. The same with a supervisor that walks a call center with a tablet collecting data such as which reps are on the floor, what state their phones are in, etc. To make the data usable it will go back to a PC or Mac workstation. Not a server array. Nobody will ever try to manipulate a spreadsheet with hundreds of data cells from a touch device unless it's docked to a keyboard and mouse because it would be inefficient and given to costly and time consuming errors. Imagine for instance a call center with 350 reps all attempting to document calls and troubleshoot caller issues on a touch interface. Even filling out forms on a touch interface is inefficient, nice to have the option in the drive through at McDonald's but I don't respond to emails from my phone or tablet if I have a PC at hand. Even entering such things as search queries on IMDb or Wikipedia is far easier from a PC than it is a tablet. These devices are for consumption and their market strength is due to the fact that so many people only need a device for consumption because when they are doing "real work" they are using someone else's equipment. Nurses aren't charting patients from the mall on Saturday, supervisors don't care about phone stats when the call center is closed and when they need to care they are sitting in front of the company's asset, and almost without exception it's a PC - A windows based PC. I'm in healthcare and I haven't heard of a single instance in this sector of replacing the PC with tablet clients because you really can't do most work related TASK on one. BUT, that being said what's happening is the same thing we saw with land line phones (Windows, Mac) and cellular phones (smartphones, tablets), most consumers in the developed world learned they don't need a land line, whereas most businesses couldn't operate without them. So like AT&T and Verizon, MS needs to adapt to the new reality on the consumer side even though it's pretty secure on the enterprise side.
Easy wasn't it.
We always tech this stuff to death. maybe this is #1 cause for flame wars. Technically, the computer ( to include smartphones and tablets) is not needed at all, for most people on earth. Everything that the majority of users do on a computer could easily be done with pad and pencil.

That being said, I dont care if I don't need a PC. I like PCs and as long as there is one, I want one! And if there is one (PC) and there is windows software, I wont windows on my PC. That's what I like, that is what I'm used to, thats what works for me, and I have not found anything that I like better. I will try one of the tablets; not sure I will buy one. For me (repeat:for me) the cloud is a none starter, period!! When they move everything to the cloud and there is no need for a PC, I will find something else to occupy my time. Just one man's opinion!!
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Just a lever. Gloves are a luxury.
What the Author is saying is that more and more of the 'real work' is being done on large machines, or collections of machines. The information that these machines then collate and work on is viewed on local machines that are much less capable than the larger remote machines.

In an interconnected world, it doesn't really matter where the large machine is, in the next room, or a continent away. Having a capable Web Browser is probably the only requirement. Yes, Windows can do that. So can Linux or iOS. An iPad or a Galaxy Tab, if it is enough for the job is fine for getting the work done.

For something like CAD, you will need a better equiped system than a 7 or 10" pad. But it isn't windows that does the job, it's the program that is running. If a central server was doing the mapping, then the local could be a smaller machine. Still, for CAD or similar operations, it's much more a question of the input devices than it is the power of the machine. I was doing professinal CAD work ten years ago on a K-6 300 MHZ machine. Most of the newer tablets have more horsepower than that machine had. It isn't so much a question of the machines power as it is of the input devices sensitivity.

All of the major OS's have enough power for the I/O. Linux, iOS, Windows. For the backends, you are usually talking about different OS set anyway. Linux is the only one on the desktop that can run the truly high end machines. It's much more a Unix world there. Windows peters out when you get more than 64 way machines.

But, most of the readers of this site will never need that kind of processing power.

When or if you do, then it won't matter what you are running. It will be compatible with the systems that do the real heavy lifting.

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