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Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

MPEG-LA targets Google’s VP8 Video Codec

By | February 14, 2011, 8:50am PST

Summary: The Web standard video patent wars heats up as MPEG-LA starts to load its patent gun to shoot at Google’s VP8 codec.

First, Google opened up its VP8 video codec. Then, Google removed built-in support for the MPEG-LA patent encumbered H.264 video codec from its Chrome Web-browser in favor of VP8. After that it was only a matter of time before the MPEG-LA patent consortium came gunning for Google VP8.

As a MPEG-LA representative told ZDNet’s Ed Bott, “Yes, as we have said in the past, we believe VP8 uses many patents owned by different parties. To the extent VP8 includes technology owned by others, then a pool license which removes uncertainties regarding patent rights and royalties by making that technology widely available on the same terms to everyone would be beneficial to the market.”

In a statement, Google said that “MPEG-LA has alluded to a VP8 pool since WebM launched–this is nothing new. The Web succeeds with open, community-developed innovation, and the WebM Project brings the same principles to web video.”

So what’s really going on here? I asked Andrew “Andy” Updegrove a founding partner of Gesmer Updegrove, a top technology law firm, and a leading expert on patent law for his take on the situation and this is what he told me.

Updegrove would like to know “How did this effort start? At the one end of the spectrum, this could be an initiative purely of MPEG-LA smelling business. At the other end, they’re just a service provider that has been approached by a group of companies that helped set this standard and want it to manage the pool.”

In this case, it’s pretty clear that it’s MPEG-LA looking for patent law-suit ammo, but it would be nice to know more about who the movers and shakers are behind the efforts to create a VP8 patent pool and what their motivations are.

Updegrove continued, “Why are they polling the marketplace? On the one hand, it doesn’t make sense, because the pool can only charge so much, and the more patent claims get thrown into the pot, the less each claim owner gets for that claim. The reason is that pools usually only work well when everyone, or just about everyone, who has a necessary claim joins in. Otherwise, there’s not enough benefit (or resignation) on the part of implementers to do business with the pool. They might instead just take a ’so sue me’ attitude, and pay up only to those patent owners that hunt them down after negotiating with them.”

Sure, he continued, “If the pool really does gather in all of the patents, then it’s easy to take a single license from a single source, and also less problematic, because you’ll know that your competitors are doing the same (i.e., they have the same incremental added cost to their products), so it all zeroes out, from a competitive point of view.”

Since Google, the owner of VP8, isn’t a party to MPEG-LA’s efforts to create a patent pool, it seems likely that MPEG-LA is acting as a patent troll. As I see it, what MPEG-LA’s wants to do is to stop VP8 from becoming an accepted Web video standard or, if does become accepted over its own MPEG-based standards such as H.264, to profit from it with patent fees.

Welcome to the real role of software patents: not pushing technology forward, but maximizing the money for people and businesses that have nothing to do with actually creating anything new. The upcoming MPEG-LA vs. VP8 patent battles will not serve the good of any Web user or developer, it will only reward, if anyone, MPEG-LA and its litigators.

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Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, aka sjvn, has been writing about technology and the business of technology since CP/M-80 was the cutting edge, PC operating system

Disclosure

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols is a freelance writer. He does not own stocks or other investments in any technology company.

Biography

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, aka sjvn, has been writing about technology and the business of technology since CP/M-80 was the cutting edge, PC operating system; 300bps was a fast Internet connection; WordStar was the state of the art word processor; and we liked it.

His work has been published in everything from highly technical publications (IEEE Computer, ACM NetWorker, Byte) to business publications (eWEEK, InformationWeek, ZDNet) to popular technology (Computer Shopper, PC Magazine, PC World) to the mainstream press (Washington Post, San Francisco Chronicle, BusinessWeek).

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RE: MPEG-LA targets Google's VP8 Video Codec
JACOBSONR 14th Oct
Good day to confirm this comment I would appreciate T h e b e s t o f Z D N e t d e l i v e r e d your website very nice to everyone Yes, Oracle is the only one with shared-disk architecture, but that is there advantage. It means you can add or remove nodes and the database lives on. In a shared nothing architecture, if you lose a node, you lose the system. I'm sure Oracle appreciates EMC highlighting their advantage.I also desire to signal in your RSS feeds. Thank you as soon as once again and maintain up the great operate Awesome post! Thank you very much || thanks for nice content this is really benefit to me.
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Well said Steve. This is a shoutout for
Dietrich T. Schmitz, ~ Your Linux Advocate 14th Feb 2011
other entities to join in on the complaint with their patent infringed technology and fight Google collectively.

Translation: Patent trolling.
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@Dietrich so, do we entrust these patent trolls with a web standard... I don't want to think so.
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@tatiGmail
Google must call out these trolls and expose those who fight progress and innovation with baseless lawsuits.
Soon MPEG-LA and oracle will join M$ on the list of shame and will go belly up!
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@Linux Geek

Get informed, Linux Geek..... it appears that these companies have a very good case that their patents (not saying that I agree with the patents existing but.....) have been infringed on by VP8.
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Unfortunately, DTS
Michael Alan Goff 14th Feb 2011
@Dietrich T. Schmitz, Your Linux Advocate

Patents are legal at this point, and Google has to follow the law like everybody else.
a billion or two on this. They will pay the lawyers, and license any of the garbage that the court tells them they have to license. All part of the game.
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You're right
Michael Alan Goff 14th Feb 2011
With any luck, they'll be able to legally use the license terms to help out their VP8 codec to make it much more competitive with h.264.

And then everybody wins.
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If you groked IBM vs SCO vs Novell
Dietrich T. Schmitz, ~ Your Linux Advocate 14th Feb 2011
@goff256

The litigation took years and SCO was proven wrong, all while technology moved forward 'at the speed of light'.

Google can keep MPEG-LA busy for five years and in the meantime the world will keep turning.

MPEG-LA will be irrelevant by then.
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If that happens, then it happens
Michael Alan Goff 14th Feb 2011
I just want the best codec out there to be used...
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or vp8 will be irrelevant by then dietrich
Ron Bergundy Updated - 14th Feb 2011
@goff256
but thats the part you are too scared to admit!

oh no!! people are using a superior codec that you cant make a buck off of!!!
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I was going to take you seriously but, no, you are funny
Dietrich T. Schmitz, ~ Your Linux Advocate 14th Feb 2011
@Ron Bergundy
without trying.
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but DTS, he makes a good point
John Zern 14th Feb 2011
VP8 may be irrelevant by then, true?
@Dietrich T. Schmitz, Your Linux Advocate

As they see fit. That VP8 (AKA: WebM) is substandard as well does not help it.
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@Bruizer
THEY'RE NOT INFRINGING. Google bought On2 who own all of the known patents on VP8. By your logic, Apple is infringing on h.264 patents. There could be patent trolls out there waiting to sue users of h.264. MPEG-LA's patent pool doesn't prevent that.

This is about a standard for web video. A standard must be implementable by everyone and that's NOT possible for h.264, but it is for webm. Having a standard won't stop a browser from supporting other video formats, but we need a format that can be built into every browser and one ladened by patents and royalties won't work.
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Apple IS being sued by MpegLa CEO
guihombre Updated - 14th Feb 2011
@Bruizer,
"By your logic, Apple is infringing on h.264 patents."

On a side note, Apple *IS* being sued for use of H264 in mobile devices. They *HAVE* a license to the patent pool, and *contributed* to the MPEG4 patent pool.

The company that's suing them, it's the same CEO as MpegLA:

http://thepriorart.typepad.com/the_prior_art/2010/04/mobilemedia-ideas-v-apple.html

So having a license for H264 doesn't mean you have a license to use it, you may be infringing any number of other claims, and indeed there is an active litigant there, MPEGLAs very own CEO, via MobileMedia Ideas LLC, with a set of vague troll patents.
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@guihombre
Bruizer 14th Feb 2011
H.264 is not why Apple is being sued. It is for different tech held by MobileMedia.

The probability that On2 is free of patents is highly questionable. Add to that, a poorly writen standard and a low performane codec... Why?
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@Dietrich T. Schmitz, Your Linux Advocate

It's also obvious as to Steve's bias - "patent encumbered" indeed.

As usual, we get told that we have to use an inferior product because it's "free" (although that's yet to be seen) and trust the word of an advertising company.

What's most amusing is seeing all these American conservatives supporting socialism. What's even funnier is that they'd see it as an insult wink
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I guess all we need to do...
John L. Ries 15th Feb 2011
@tonymcs@...
...is to outlaw efforts to avoid the use of patented technology. Call it "patent evasion". After all, the fewer people license your patent, the less money you can make from it and the less it's worth. And arguably, deliberately devaluing other people's property (and boycotts certainly do that) is a form of vandalism.
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The easiest thing for Google to do ...
terry flores 15th Feb 2011
@Dietrich T. Schmitz, Your Linux Advocate

Would actually be to buy one of these companies, then use the supposed patent to attack all of the MPEG-LA licensees. Turnabout is fair play.
in royalties if nobody has to use their inferior codec.
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Inferior codec?
Michael Alan Goff 14th Feb 2011
Could you please elaborate?

I was under the impression that VP8 had slower encode speed, decode speed, and relative performance in comparison to h.264.
important measure where VP8 shines is in the quality of the playback and the lower bit-rate. Of course the amount of processing you need for the decode will affect battery life, and VP8 may have a slight disadvantage there (for now) due to hardware acceleration for H.264. In time, look for VP8 to win on the merits, with H.264 having to use dirty tricks if they are to stop VP8 so that they can continue to collect royalties (extortion payments).
lawsuits. They are filing lawsuits because they understand that H.264 can not win on the merits.
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@goff256 I'll bet Donnie won't elaborate with any real data to back up his claim. Truth is WebM can not come anywhere close to the feature set or quality of H.264 nor garner the multi-industry support H.264 enjoys which also includes tons of hardware support for encoding and playback. Wikipedia H.264 to get an idea of the breadth of this CODEC.

Unfortunately this truly great technology is hampered by patents as WebM will soon be.

So really the only thing WebM had going for it (royalty free) will be gone. This begs to question what Mozilla will do. By their own proclamations about H.264 they must also dismiss WebM. And Google will look hypocritical by supporting a patent encumbered CODEC in Chrome.
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@goff256, in the DonnieBoy world if Google makes a pee-shooter, and General Dynamics a missle, then you can be sure that when the Army passes the pee-shooter over for the missle in refernce to shooting down the enemy, DonnieBoy will be telling us how they chose the "inferior" technology. wink
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DonnieBoy: G-O-O-G-L-E
John Zern 14th Feb 2011
it sure sounds like Google is using it's ownership of Youtube and size/power to force users into using VP8.

Why is it good when Google does it, but bad when MS does?
VP8 has a lower bit rate, and, people watching the video can not tell any difference unless you compare freeze frames side by side - in which case VP8 usually come out ahead.
@goff256

Set codec technology back 15 years.
unnecessary. Also, if H.264 were significantly better it would be simple for you to provide links to that. Try to "Bing" for it. You will find out that users can not tell the difference unless they look at freeze frames side-by-side, AND, VP8 has a better bit rate. No argument here that it will take more CPU for the one time operation to create the bitstream for VP8. Also no argument that there is more hardware acceleration for H.264.
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@DonnieBoy
I agree MPEG-LA is like the next SCO sending the legal goons after the battle on merits was lost!
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Do you have patents infringed by H264?
guihombre 14th Feb 2011
If you do, get a lawyer and sue everyone using H264. You can find the list of licensees on the MPEG-LA licensee page.

You are NOT obliged to throw the patent into the MPEG-LA pool and receive a fraction of its value. Indeed the CEO runs a separate company MobileMedia and HE DOESN'T THROW HIS PATENTS INTO A MPEG-LA pool!

Not only that, they are considering making a cut down codec for free, but just because MPEG-LA won't charge for it (and the pool contributors won't benefit), it doesn't mean MobileMedia (his other company) won't demand money later.

Likewise it doesn't mean you should either. Go ahead sue the licensees, I bet they're infringing lots of patents.
could use to keep H.264 tied up in court, should the MPEG-LA group decide to sue Google. Though Google does have a lot of their own patents they can use.
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but why would Google need to do that
John Zern Updated - 14th Feb 2011
@DonnieBoy, if their codec is sooo much better, why would they need to try to "shut down H.264" with a lawsuit? If Google's infringing, they're infringing, and they should be the one to stop infringing.
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H.264 would die on its own. The only winners will be the lawyers.
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RE: MPEG-LA targets Google's VP8 Video Codec
atari_z Updated - 14th Feb 2011
@Dietrich T. Schmitz: It's easy to call anyone a patent troll today. A patent troll is defined (in wikipedia) as "Patent troll is a pejorative term used for a person or company that enforces its patents against one or more alleged infringers in a manner considered unduly aggressive or opportunistic, often with no intention to manufacture or market the patented invention." H264 is already shipped and working, so to call MPEG LA a patent troll is not true.

@DonnieBoy: hmm, every specialist on the planet, or everyone who has compared H264 to VP8, agree that VP8 is inferior, and not by a small margin.
only see the difference in side by side freeze frames. And, even then, VP8 typically comes out on top.
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LOL Firefox 4 beta 11 broke the Microsoft h.264 plugin so it dosen't work anymore
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They'll fix it.
John Zern 15th Feb 2011
@Knix96
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