Groklaw accused of censorship
Summary: Especially obnoxious is sandboxing, censoring the fact of censorship from the person being censored.
To my mind, Groklaw is one of the indispensable sites in open source.
Just don't get on Pamela Jones' bad side. (I'm afraid I just did.)
When I took this beat, back when the SCO vs. IBM case was in full flower, Groklaw was always on top of the story. Sometimes I disagreed with it, but I saw it as unbiased, authoritative and credible.
There have always been those who claimed the opposite, starting with SCO management. The mysterious Pamela Jones -- never seen, a self-described paralegal, signing everything PJ, but with a detective's instincts, a librarian's access to research materials, and a litigator's sharp tongue -- added spice and mystery.
If you're a legal geek, Groklaw is delicious enough to be practically pornographic.
But now several people have come forward with separate claims of Groklaw censoring their comments, and Florian Mueller has posted examples of the practice at Scribd.
What in the past was only hinted at is now out in the open.
Mueller's Scribd piece describes some examples of comments being expunged and describes incidents going back to 2005. Most involve Groklaw itself, and charges of its censoring comments.
Especially obnoxious to some is the issue of "sandboxing." A user will write a comment, they can see it when they log back in from the same IP address, but it won't appear to the public. The person being censored is having that censorship censored.
Thomas Klupp, a longtime Linux user, wrote this has happened to him, when he questioned Groklaw policies.
"It is normal that discussion forums censor really bad comments. But my comment was a polite question." A copy was passed to me. It was a comment that questioned Groklaw's policy regarding discussions.
Blogger William Beebe wrote in 2007 of a similar experience. People whom PJ dislikes see comments, even entire threads, disappear, even if they are on point and supportive of Groklaw's general point of view.
One programmer who has been subjected to this treatment claimed in a note to me that PJ has a "conspiratorial mindset" and "nothing better to do than write about you all day every day." (This may be why he then asked that his name not be used.)
One person who is quite public in his complaints is Jay Maynard, maintainer of open source Hercules. Correction: The story text originally read TurboHercules, although the link is to Maynard's open source project.
As he wrote on his blog, "The writing was on the wall was when she picked one statement out of my long post, replied to it with a vicious attack on my credentials as an open source community member, and ignored all the rest of what I wrote. I can now only assume she did so because she found the facts inconvenient."
And that's the bottom line here.
No one is accusing Pamela Jones or Groklaw of violating any law. Most of those who have written on this issue, like Maynard, have the highest regard for the site's work. What they're questioning are is just what Jones questions so eloquently -- a lack of transparency.
As one source who showed me extensive evidence on this point noted, while asking that his name not be used, "It's PJ's soapbox and she can have her way with it. The only real issue from my perspective is that she's sneaky."
For any discussion site to succeed people must feel free to disagree. I know comments to ZDNet are sometimes removed, but never by me, and never without sound reason based on a stated policy. That's all anyone is asking for here.
Tell us what the policy is. Don't just try to make people or statements you don't like disappear. What's fine for a personal Web site is not fine for a scaled community considered the journal of record in open source law.
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Talkback
Let me get this straight.
What is your position on censorship at ZDNet?
What is the point of this article?
I think this is pretty funny actually--the pot calling the kettle black.
I will say of all of the blogs however, yours as been more 'tolerant' of commenters than any other.
Ed Bott, aka Mr. Microsofty, is the worst offender of heavy-handed, arbitrary censorship.
Groklaw just censored a link to this article here
If you're so pro-Groklaw, what do you think of the fact that a comment by your fellow registered Groklaw user JamesK just got censored within a minute or two of being posted?
Groklaw accused of censorship
Authored by: JamesK on Friday, November 19 2010 @ 04:28 PM EST
The link is
http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20101113003329789&title=Groklaw%20accused%20of%20censorship&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=886947#c887108 and it no longer shows that comment.
LOL Groklaw restored this one (but only this one)
RE: Groklaw accused of censorship
RE: Groklaw accused of censorship
RE: Groklaw accused of censorship
That's not true. You just don't like the fact
You hate the fact that Ed Bott shoots you down weekly with facts, and all you have is your typical "Linux is the best and hire me to do it for you" posts.
Now your upset that your "reference material" may prove to be tainted, detroying everything you use to "build your reputation on".
Sorry, even your heros can be fakes.
I concure
Though it may have started innocently enough, like many a cause that has gone astray it appears it has morphed into nothing more then one person's ticket to "fame and fortune", in which the manipulation of facts is done for no other reason then to fill the needs of the one behind it.
And many of the faithful too blinded to the truth follow and defend it because it gives them that which they have allways looked for, like the witch hunts of your early history, or the McCarthy era not too far in your nation's past.
People like Mr. Schmitz want so badly for Microsoft to be the nexus of all things evil, they will latch onto a site like Groklaw, as their manipulation of facts gives hime exactly what he has allways looked for.
:|
So how much...
Maybe they added a door to it, huh?
;)
RE: Groklaw accused of censorship
Re: Less than truthful
Actually Dana, it isn't good to do for a personal website either. If you don't eat your own dogfood people will eventually stay away. Most personal websites don't have policies anyway.
What acn you expect, What X M$ employee now owns zdnet
Please enlighten us to that answer
RE: Groklaw accused of censorship
RE: Groklaw accused of censorship
PJ is not a free software advocate
RE: Groklaw accused of censorship
RE: Groklaw accused of censorship
Unless of course this is just Pamela Jones' personal web site. In which case it doesn't matter what she does. But then it shouldn't matter to any of us what she writes, either, in that case.
You don't get to have it both ways. You can't stand as an authority and then delete all criticism. Not if you want to remain an authority.
ALL lOVEROCK DAVIDSON EVER DOES ON
Groklaw's Disclosure Pages