ie8 fix

Linux and Open Source

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols & Paula Rooney

Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop

By | April 11, 2011, 10:40am PDT

Summary: After years of steering away from the Linux desktop, in 2012, Red Hat will fully support a virtual desktop infrastructure.

San Francisco–Red Hat is the strongest Linux company in the world when it comes to servers, but it has almost no presence on the desktop. That will be changing in 2012 with the reintroduction of a Simple Protocol for Independent Computing Environments (SPICE)-based virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI).

It’s not that Red Hat has ever completely done away with the Linux desktop. The Red Hat Enterprise Linux Desktop is still available, but in the big scheme of Red Hat’s business, the desktop counts for little. That may be changing though as Red Hat gets ready to explore a server-based VDI thin-client desktop.

This revised desktop will use SPICE, which like Microsoft’s Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP) and Citrix’s Independent Computing Architecture (ICA), is a desktop presentation services protocol. The point of these programs is to let the servers do the heavy lifting while a thin-client gives the user the illusion of a full fat-client desktop.

This desktop won’t be a competitor to traditional desktops like the forthcoming Ubuntu 11.04 or Windows 7. Thin clients are meant for corporate desktops, like those in a company where Red Hat is already powering the servers. Remember, it’s in Linux servers, not desktops, that Red Hat has made its riches.

On the server side, SPICE depends on KVM (Kernel Virtual Machine) for its horsepower. Guess what Red Hat’s favorite virtualization platform is these days? That would be KVM. So if you have a company that’s already invested in Red Hat on the servers, wouldn’t it make sense to offer them a complementary Linux desktop option as well? And perhaps sell a few more server licenses along the way? That makes good business sense to me and it fits into Red Hat’s existing business plans.

Red Hat has explored the SPICE-based VDI idea earlier, but put it on the back-burner when they discovered that SPICE was filled with proprietary code. While Red Hat open-sourced that they could of SPICE it ended up losing most of its speed.

Worse still, as a Red Hat architect, explained to me at the Linux Foundation Collaboration Summit in San Francisco, the server side of Red Hat’s SPICE,
Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization Manager (RHVM PDF Link), runs on Windows server.

Whoops.

Yes, that’s right. A major Linux program required Windows to work. That, as you might expect is one reason why Red Hat hasn’t been pushing either RHVM or a SPICE-based desktop. As the Red Hat employee said, “Customers would ask us about it, and when we said, ‘It requires Windows Server;’ they’d say, ‘You’ve got to be kidding.’ And, that was that.”

This is changing, albeit slowly. First, Red Hat has to “remove the Windows bug” from RHVM as the Red Hat staffer put it. The next version of RHVM 3.0, which will appear either late this year or early next year, will be a purely Linux-driven server application. Its Active Server Page (ASP) components will be replaced by Java equivalents.

In addition, he said that Red Hat is working hard on getting SPICE back to its former speed. “Open-source SPICE is now at about to 80% of the propritary version’s speed and we hope to have it to 100% by the Fedora 15 release.” Fedora 15 is now scheduled to appear on May 24th. For Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) users, you can expect to see full-speed SPICE in RHEL 6.2.

Put it all together and what it means is that you can expect to see a full Red Hat Linux VDI desktop in early 2012. Will it replace fat-client desktops? No, Red Hat doesn’t expect that it will. But, as he said, “It’s a tactical fix for a tactical problem” for some businesses’ desktops.

I, for one, will be interested in seeing it. While I don’t see myself using a thin-client desktop, it’s all the desktop many business staffers need. I can see companies that have already standardized on RHEL for their servers seeing this as a very natural, and cost-effective, extension of Linux to their line-of-work desktop users.

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Topics

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, aka sjvn, has been writing about technology and the business of technology since CP/M-80 was the cutting edge, PC operating system

Disclosure

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols is a freelance writer. He does not own stocks or other investments in any technology company.

Biography

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, aka sjvn, has been writing about technology and the business of technology since CP/M-80 was the cutting edge, PC operating system; 300bps was a fast Internet connection; WordStar was the state of the art word processor; and we liked it!

His work has been published in everything from highly technical publications (IEEE Computer, ACM NetWorker, Byte) to business publications (eWEEK, InformationWeek, ZDNet) to popular technology (Computer Shopper, PC Magazine, PC World) to the mainstream press (Washington Post, San Francisco Chronicle, BusinessWeek).

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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
FAULKNE 13th Oct
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Message has been deleted.
Jack-Booted EULA Updated - 11th Apr 2011
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
auntaru Updated - 12th Apr 2011
http://pantestmb.blogspot.com/2011/04/spice-up-your-desktop.html

With SPICE will be a lot easier to switch to Desktop Linux.

I.T. Departments who must forget about old (FoxPro) desktop applications ( my case) , can switch to SPICE . In the beginning - one or two years - the user will not comment because his computer will continue to run Windows. In the second step - when all enterprise apps runs on the - Virtual "CLOUD" Desktop - the user's computer will BOOT the Fedora Desktop and the user cannot complain because he is already familiar with the new business software.

@cornpie, @Cayble, @DevJonny

IF, and only IF - the management approves and enforces the new ERP via SPICE , in a Small Business, a complaining user has only one alternative : to resign
In this way, Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office can disapper in a few years ...

Another subtile way of introducing SPICE is with a WEBMAIL server. If an user wants Mozilla Seamonkey or Thunderbird, they cannot have it on their road-warrior laptop , but instead on the SPICE account ...
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Oh, you havn't been around long...
cornpie 11th Apr 2011
@auntaru ...to believe "the user cannot complain". Of course users can (and will) complain! Its what they do best. They will complain about anything that is different than what they did yesterday. They will complain about the switch to linux, and if for some reason a year down the road you decided to switch to Windows 8, they would complain about that too. It would be as if they had never used anything but linux.

For users, what ever they have today is good and anything different is bad. Once you switch, what ever you are switching to becomes the "new normal" and you will then have a heck of a time switching from that.
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Your right. And with good reason.
Cayble 11th Apr 2011
@cornpie
The single most difficult task one often has to overcome on the ZDNet message boards, and indeed, even when responding directly to the author of a blog, is that the person your responding too is so deep into the world of IT that they cannot accurately directly relate to the average man on the street or woman at the workplace desk so to speak.

People who work breath and live IT even inundate their family and friends with their knowledge and therefore they often get commentary from even those people already skewed by what they have "learned" from the IT person who has been dealing with them as a family member or friend for years.

It becomes very difficult to know what the average completely novice or relatively uneducated computer user thinks, desires or even wants when your life has become IT and you have brought some of that life into the awareness of those around you.

Students often get a laptop as a gift for example, not even being part of the purchase process where they may learn something about what they are looking for. People of all ages go into big box stores and discount computer shops and hear a salesman spout off a pile of stats on a computer they are considering purchasing and they quickly forget what those stats even mean and just go for what "sounded" the best in their price range. Make no mistake, people would purchase more Apple computers if they were cheaper then Windows based computers because Apple makes themselves sound so damn good. Its just the price that gets in the way, and when a salesman at another shop tells them they can get what is essentially the same internals for less, thats what they buy. Thats the extent of Joe Averages consideration on a computer purchase in the real world.

And what do users want? Well your right, they want a computer that is easy to use and familiarity works toward that. Like it or not its a massive selling point. And as much as that works for Windows and not so much for OSX and Linux, its an honest and valid selling point.

If you want any average, non savvy computer user to switch their OS, even to a different flavour of Windows they usually are not going to be happy about it. Quite frankly, anyone who used Vista for a while for example can attest to the fact that there wasn't anything really so wrong with the OS, perhaps not as great as one hoped but nothing essentially wrong. But there were complaints and you can count on the fact that the vast majority of those complaints were born out of minds that simply didn't like the differences from XP, and couldn't justify them because there wasn't anything so wonderful about Vista that was worth offsetting the nuisance of learning the nuances of a new OS.

People will complain. And the bigger the change the louder they will complain. In general. Truly, all Linux enthusiasts really should take an honest hard look at the question of why Linux hasn't gotten as far as it probably should have by now.

Unlike many, I did use Linux for a period of time, not overly long but about 3 months or so with SUSE 9. I thought it was a surprisingly great OS and came with a pretty phenomenal installation package. And it was FREE. Wow, admittedly hard to beat. Problem was, and still remains so to this day that not everything worked as I would have liked. There are still too many things that Windows can do with a few clicks that Linux will not. And worse yet I guess, its so difficult to just give up every single Windows application you ever liked, games particularly, so Linux then wants you to run Wine to access those programs, if they work on Wine. If it was just a bit too much for me to live with for the rest of my life, count on a true and fair explanation of Linux to Joe Average too reasonably be met with a no thanks. Also count on him complaining like hell if he comes in to work one day and finds out thats whats now been foisted upon him.
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Too true!
DevJonny 12th Apr 2011
@cornpie

happy
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
ItsTheBottomLine 12th Apr 2011
@Cayble
Perfectly said, and IMO - dead on.
I thought Linux was suppose to be free? - The hypocrisy.

Yes, that?s right. A major Linux program required Windows to work. - PR and Credibility disaster.

I, for one, will be interested in seeing it. While I don?t see myself using a thin-client desktop - Then why you such a big defender of Chrome OS?
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Contributr
RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
sjvn@... 11th Apr 2011
@Mr. Dee I like Chrome OS, but I wouldn't say I'm a big defender of it for my personal use. I think most power-users will always prefer fat-clients--be it Windows 7, Mac OS X, Linux, whatever--but for a lot of non-techie people a thin-client/cloud OS desktop is all they'll need.

Steven
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Does that go for consumers as well?
OffsideInVancouver 11th Apr 2011
@sjvn@...

I agree that at work thin clients are fine for many people, and that the number is increasing.

Is it a great idea to push the idea that all data can be held in the cloud to consumers though? That's potentially a lot of people storing a lot of personal data in the cloud without realising the full implications in what they're doing for data security. Currently we're in a situation where the majority of malware is installed because end users don't fully understand what they're doing, can you imagine that being run through again with credit card details.
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@OffsideInVancouver
DevJonny 12th Apr 2011
This wouldn't be cloud based, or you could say it was a "Private" cloud. All data would be held on internal (to the organisation) servers / datacentres that you would hope have the proper protection against internal & external threats.
@Mr. Dee: And perhaps sell a few more server licenses along the way?

...to do something similar. Oh wait, they have and they've caught the heat from the ABMers.
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Well, is anyone surprised???
SonofaSailor Updated - 11th Apr 2011
"Yes, thats right. A major Linux program required Windows to work."

Well, Duh. anytime anything useful is needed to be done, that's the operating system it's done on.

All the fanbois and tweakers can blow smoke all they want about how their little iPad toys and linux desktops are useful for the enterprise...

but when it's time to shut up and actually get work done, you know what operating system is used:

Microsoft Windows.
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yeah, nice try...
SonofaSailor 11th Apr 2011
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
guzz46 11th Apr 2011
@SonofaSailor

That would depend on which facts you choose to believe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_adoption#Desktop_computers

"In 2009 Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer indicated that Linux had a greater desktop market share than Mac, stating that in recent years Linux had "certainly increased its share somewhat". Just under a third of all Dell netbook sales in 2009 had Linux installed. By 2010, as a total of retail sales Linux represented 8% of desktop operating systems"
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ROFLMFAO!!!!
SonofaSailor 11th Apr 2011
@guzz46

First, the link I provided above is as recent as March 2011. Your quoting data 1-2 year old "facts".

Second, funny how... Steve Ballmer doesn't know d!ck unless you need to take a snippet of something he said to support your argument. Let me guess: that one statement is the one nugget of truth he let slip out, huh?

Third, the link I provided was from a organization whose purpose is to provide market data; the link you provided was from an organization who allows people like you and me to write their "facts".

LMFAO... you said it yourself: it depends on which facts you choose to believe. Just, next time you state some "facts", don't cite wikipedia as a source.

Careful, your double standards are getting dangerously close to the Apple faithful.
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
wuboyblue 15th Apr 2011
@guzz46 Wow, that is impressive. I have been running dual boot machines for years, back in the day it was RH 6, today it is Ubuntu 10.04(LTR, less pain).

Sometimes I run Linux, sometimes I run W7, the one thing I won't touch is OS X. W7 is a really good gaming and multimedia OS>
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
tonymcs@... 11th Apr 2011
@SonofaSailor

I'm still laughing about how they think going backwards to a Linux server and using (shudder) Java rather than ASP makes the product better wink Apparently a simple web server and a slow, slow language are all that's needed to overcome the prejudices of Linux fanatics.

Lame is apparently a marketing benefit wink
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
apostate 30th Apr 2011
@tonymcs@...

Yeah, asp.....that's a sports car of a language. ROFL
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
guzz46 11th Apr 2011
@SonofaSailor

So are you implying that in one year linux desktop market share from dell's netbooks alone has dropped by 7%? and webpage hits aren't an accurate way of how to measure market share.

When did i say that steve ballmer doesn't know d!ck? if you are upset then take it up with ballmer not me, oh and you do know that wikipedia has links to the quotes in its articles don't you?
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
YetAnotherBob 12th Apr 2011
@guzz46

Ballmers statement was to the SEC. This was under oath. Sonofasailor had data from a Microsoft paid marketing org. It only dealt with Linux Sales, and excluded netbooks and servers. So, who are you going to believe, a paid advertiser, or a statement under oath, where lying gets you prison time?
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
SonofaSailor 12th Apr 2011
@YetAnother...Idiot

Um, first, Ballmer's statement in question was to investors, not the body that governs investing - the SEC. And, no, he was not under oath... He was not testifying on marketshare of computer o/s.

Second.... your statement of "exluded netbooks and servers"... yeah, in case you lost track of the argument at hand: we are talking about desktop o/s. the original article is about virtualizing a desktop o/s, the talkbacks are about desktop o/s and desktop o/s marketshare. SERVERS SHOULD BE EXCLUDED.

Or, to put it another way, if Steve Ballmer lied under oath and "lying gets you prison time"... why isn't he in prison?
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
apostate Updated - 29th Apr 2011
@SonofaSailor

OMG what an immense moron you are. Get work done? Like whatever crap you use it for, in other words? Because HUGE banks don't run on Windows. Nor do airlines, the Stock Exchange, the Internet, any large enterprise databases to speak of...shall I continue? The fact is, you are not remotely qualified to engage in this conversation because you think the choice of what OS to use is some sort of football game, where you root for your hometown team. Just because you use MS Office at work doesn't mean business runs on MS Windows, it doesn't. Ask Oracle, or IBM, or Novell. You have heard of those companies...right? EBay? Not windows. Amazon.com? Not windows. But hey, it's true they do make one hell of a word-processor there at Redmond.

The fact is, the choice of what platform to use for a given task is driven by concerns like "cost-effectiveness" and "reliability", not "Dur, I like Windows cuz it came on my $300 laptop!"

Oracle RAC...don't think that works on Windows. Huge enterprise J2ee app farms, I may be wrong but I think that is mostly Solaris/Linux in the real world. Highly Transactional Databases that run multinational financial institutions? I guess you could use MS SQLServer on 60,000 Windows boxes-- if you wanted to get fired in a matter of days and cost someone billions....or you could use DB2 on AIX UNIX which is what real businesses do at the advice or real IT professionals who know how the hell these things actually work, genius. The fact is, many large enterprises that need to run mission-critical apps that HAVE TO WORK or somebody dies/gets canned/losses millions are adopting Linux on x86 due to the ubiquity of the hardware, and the robustness and low TCO of the GNU/Linux tool-chain. Period.

Go back to Bejewelled.
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
Loverock Davidson Updated - 11th Apr 2011
This is DOA. Linux on the desktop has been dead for a while now and virtualizing it isn't going to help anything. If you already have a Microsoft Windows server running there would be no reason to bog it down with this additional software. That's another issue with linux that rears its ugly head. Probably takes twice the compilation time too, once on the server then once for each node. Also you will be compromising the integrity of Microsoft Windows security by loading linux on top if it. Its known fact linux requires daily updates, most of them are security related (probably the telnet port being open and them trying to fix it). This application is pretty much useless in the real world.
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
auntaru 11th Apr 2011
@Loverock Davidson
There are a lot of business networks without Windows Servers ;
Also, there are networks with at least one Linux server ...
@auntaru ...ends up being a mixed environment. As much as the zealots of all flavors want to sell their particular bias as the be all and end all of the computing world, it just doesn't work out that way in real life.
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
tonymcs@... 11th Apr 2011
@auntaru

There's also Windows servers running open source software. Yep a real surprise to some people and some of the bloggers, apparently OSS is alive and well in Windows - which is another nail in the coffin of Linux.
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
guzz46 11th Apr 2011
@Loverock Davidson

Microsoft Windows security is compromised by default, currently with 6 unpatched vulnerabilities.

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/27467/?task=advisories

"The most severe unpatched Secunia advisory affecting Microsoft Windows 7, with all vendor patches applied, is rated Highly critical"
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
anothercanuck 11th Apr 2011
@Loverock Davidson You heard it here first, from Mr. MS himself, running 1 program on a Windows Server bogs it down.
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
guzz46 11th Apr 2011
@anothercanuck

True, so it turns out that loverock is right about some things then, and just for the record, Windows Server 2008 has 4 unpatched vulnerabilities

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/18255/?task=advisories

"The most severe unpatched Secunia advisory affecting Microsoft Windows Server 2008, with all vendor patches applied, is rated Highly critical"
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
YetAnotherBob 12th Apr 2011
@Loverock Davidson

Linux is growing slowly on the desktop, as expected. The market is still too small to support more than a few suppliers. The ones that do it are making money. This includes Za Reason, System 76, and a couple of others. Big vendors have to hide their Linux offerings to avoid offending the Monopoly. Thus, Asus, Dell and HP make you go out of your way to find it. Thus, most Linux is installed to replace Windows. Dump the trash in other words. So, the figures you love to quote all count 99% of Linux as Windows.

Real Linux usage on desktops is closing in on 10% web site operators know this. Microsoft states that Linux usage is larger than Apple.

Microsoft doesn't care, because they get paid by the manufacturer for the computers their biggest competitor uses.

The pure Linux play computer manufacturers have a lower volume, so they can't match the prices of Dell or HP. But, the difference is narrowing.

Until it does, most of us will continue to buy a Windows computer and just take out the trash.
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you are everywhere!
Alaukik 16th Apr 2011
@Loverock Davidson you look like a real ms fanboy but you only care to post on 90% of all linux related articles to troll haven't you got something better to do? like USE your windows to do something productive?
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
apostate 29th Apr 2011
@Alaukik
No. She doesn't.
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
apostate Updated - 29th Apr 2011
@Loverock Davidson

No your constant, pointless trolling is DOA. Please go find a freaking hobby. You don't have any grasp of of how this system works at all and it is painfully obvious. Do you like to embarass yourself on the Internet? I don't get it. Did you read the part where the customers were annoyed by having to stand up a Windows server? It wasn't the RHEL infrastructure they were upset with. Or did that go...right over your head, as usual?
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
kirovs@... 11th Apr 2011
Three jokers to humor me in the afternoon one after another. Wow! Thanks you guys!
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Nobody cares about the desktop
Cynical99 11th Apr 2011
Nobody's cared for a decade. This won't make any difference. The real game is in markets other than the desktop. Red Hat's nice new desktop will be DOA, so few will ever see it, it won't make a difference.
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Bad guess.
Cayble 11th Apr 2011
@Cynical99
I am sure you mean well, but quite frankly, anyone who says nobody has cared for a decade about the desktop had either better strictly qualify that remark or pitch it in the trash entirely.

For the multitude of millions around the world who still use desktops every day at home and at work, for these very average non computer savvy people the desktop is still massively relevant and as so long as laptops continue to cost more then their more powerful big brother desktops its going to remain that way, everything else is only in the interest of IT teckkies who have good reason to care about other hardware and hardware solutions but the average guy on the street desktops are still where its at and will continue to be. The used/refurbished desktop market right now is something to believe if you look into it, desktops over all are selling one hell of a lot better then you think.
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And yet -
Cynical99 13th Apr 2011
Windows is the leader with hundreds of millions of licensed installations and many many millions more pirated copies. There are probably more pirated copies of Windows in use in China than legitimate free Linux desktops.

Yes, many use Linux on the desktop, but many times more use Windows. Linux lost the desktop long, long ago.
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Strengthen your perimeter with Linux
Dietrich T. Schmitz, ~ Your Linux Advocate 11th Apr 2011
Our enterprise systems have recently been bitten by virus attacks from none other than users accessing the Internet from Windows XP.

Yep, that's right. Windows XP is still 'more than good enough' for most tasks.

The big BUT, is that we have to constantly apply security patches to stay current or tread water with the ever-present Zero-day vulnerabilities.

Once we have a clean system, we are still open to exploits and often find ourselves doing the same cycle of fixing PCs that get hit by a 'drive by'.

That is most time-consuming.
There is a solution I am working on.
We use terminal servers extensively for our applications, so the users are fine using it and as Steve pointed out above, the thin client nature pushes the heavy lifting back into our data center and just the graphical presentation layer runs on the client FAT PCs. It's elegant in the respect that nothing can come between the server and client because nothing moves to the client except a buffer.

Taking that thought a step further:

Why not set up an Internet proxy server based on Ubuntu Linux with Likewise-Open or Centricity and xrdp and have all users with a legitimate need access the Linux proxy server as a 'terminal service' over xrdp?

Well, I am piloting it now and let me tell you, it works.
Why:
The user is redirected from using IE to access the Internet by the Ubuntu Server's Squid proxy engine if trying to reach any extranet address and messages the user to access the 'Browser Terminal Server' to go onto the Internet.

Each user has an Icon on their desktop which is a shortcut to a Remote Desktop Connection to the Ubuntu Linux Terminal Server that will allow them to log onto the server with their AD credentials and then allow them to open up a Firefox browser session--running in an AppArmor 'sandbox'. The user also has a kerberos/smbfs Windows User Share Folder mapped and displayed on their Desktop, to which they can download any file from the Internet as deemed appropriate for the Acceptable Use Policy on the browser Terminal Server.

The IE browser connection tab is locked down via RegEdit so as to ensure users don't attempt to circumvent our Internet usage policy by using IE instead of the browser Terminal Server.

Thus, of the two most problematic vectors of infection, we are effectively closing down infection from Internet access, the other email is yet to be resolved, but infection from the Internet with IE is the larger of our issues.

Thankfully Steve this works.
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A trip down memory lane
facebook@... 11th Apr 2011
@Dietrich T. Schmitz, Your Linux Advocate

I remember doing something similar years ago. It was never really a complete solution and today's paradigm is borderless security. There is no such thing as a perimeter. I treat my customers machines sitting in their home as I treat my corporate owned machines sitting in my facility. I use DirectAccess and Windows Server 2008 R2

I provide the same productivity experience no matter how you connect to the office. With DirectAccess, I can manage remote computers, even if the user is not logged on.
This ensures that systems stay up-to-date with security and system health policies.
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System health, oh that's a chuckle.
Dietrich T. Schmitz, ~ Your Linux Advocate 11th Apr 2011
@facebook@...

Sounds nice, but I live in the real-world. That is just BS.
Microsoft Windows can run in a closed loop just fine so long as users don't try to go onto the Internet from their client PCs, then all h3ll breaks loose.

Linux on any perimeter Internet facing function sitting between the Firewall and the client Windows PC is the only way to stop chasing windmills and get off the security patch treadmill.
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"Real World"
facebook@... 11th Apr 2011
@Dietrich T. Schmitz, Your Linux Advocate

I live in 2011. My customers expect mobile connectivity and do not tolerate losses of their productivity by artificial and antiquated security bottlenecks like perimeter networks.

I have given up tilting at windmills, tired of hobbling together solutions that are only "good enough" when I have the opportunity to meet my customers need and maintain a secure, low-maintenance environment that is centrally managed efficiently.
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
ItsTheBottomLine 12th Apr 2011
@facebook@... You know I read DTS schizophrenic design above, and think - we have an enterprise of ~3000+ devices (Win7, XP, OSX, iPhone, iPads, Android Phones, and a few Xooms) and it's managed by a very small IT group of say 90 people (that's everything from infrastructure to analysts) with some outsourcing of help desk. We have little or no virus attacks or issues. I find it interesting he has so many issues. Makes you wonder.
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
YetAnotherBob 12th Apr 2011
@ItsTheBottomLine,

90 people to manage 3000 users? you must be managing on a Windows network. I would consider anything over 15 people to be over-staffing. Maybe allow you another 5 for help desk. The rest of the staff should be writing new applications to help the business. If you are not increasing the businesses bottom line (compared to last year) then your department is doomed. After all, you are overhead for 98% of businesses. Everything is overhead except manufacturing, distribution and sales.

You should be automating everything you can. Drive that fat head count down!
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
apostate 29th Apr 2011
@facebook@...

Yeah, nobody uses DMZs anymore. Not in The United Federation of Planets.
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@Dietrich T. Schmitz, Your Linux Advocate: Given you're a consultant I can understand why you'd recommend something so ridiculous. Removing their administrative rights or upgrading to Windows 7 would be a much more practical and less convoluted solution. But then it would cut down on your billing hours and remove Linux from the solution.
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My solution
Dietrich T. Schmitz, ~ Your Linux Advocate 11th Apr 2011
@ye
doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Never had issues with the innovative aspects of Windows.

I cut my teeth on Windows development in the 90's when punks like you were in diapers.

Windows is perfectly suitable as long as you reduce its exposure to internet facing applications.

That's the critical takeaway, like it or not.
Windows 7, is as much a sieve.

Without breaking the budget, and at zero cost Ubuntu does the job of serving up user Internet terminal sandboxed browser sessions exceedingly well.

Lock down direct internet access by Windows clients and let them contnue functioning behind firewalls and all is well.

Major vector of infection totally eliminated by none other than Ubuntu Linux - the safest operating system on the planet.

I stake my reputation on it.
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
facebook@... 11th Apr 2011
@Dietrich T. Schmitz, Your Linux Advocate

Your reputation is not that compelling of a stake. I can accomplish the same goal -- and significantly more -- with DirectAccess without sacrificing functionality that your antiquated perimeter solution entails.

And, I was laying out perimeter networks like you describe when you were doing Windows development in the 90's. The times have changed -- both the nature of Windows and network security are different.
@Dietrich T. Schmitz, Your Linux Advocate: Windows is perfectly suitable as long as you reduce its exposure to internet facing applications.

I'd say I trust my knowledge of it better than yours.

Lock down direct internet access by Windows clients and let them contnue functioning behind firewalls and all is well.

I've never had a problem with direct Internet access. Neither do any of the people I know who follow my simple advice. All without having to set up an elaborate proxy "solution".

I cut my teeth on Windows development in the 90's when punks like you were in diapers.

Wrong...again. Does this surprise anyone? Your solution does demonstrate your age though. Perhaps you should step aside and let us qualified people provide the solutions. It's way past time for you to retire.
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RE: Red Hat's Future Linux Desktop
apostate 29th Apr 2011
@ye

And what do you do for a living exactly? Why the F would upgrading to W7 provide a panacea of joy to solve all their problems exactly? Please do provide specifics. What would make it practical, from a licensing perspective? And if upgrading all the clients to W7 DOES make the World a happy place...why are aren't all large companies doing it yet?
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