Tech Broiler

Jason Perlow and Scott Raymond

Op-Ed: Flash is still relevant; perhaps more so than ever

By | May 4, 2011, 10:59am PDT

Summary: Software developer Joseph Labrecque points towards a bright, positive outlook regarding Adobe Flash and AIR technologies on mobile devices, the desktop and the Web.

Software developer Joseph Labrecque points towards a bright, positive outlook regarding Adobe Flash and AIR technologies on mobile devices, the desktop and the Web.

This article is the result of an invitation to offer a response article to Jason Perlow’s One year after iPad: Is Adobe Flash still relevant?

While I do not necessarily disagree with all of the observations put forward in the article, I do strongly disagree with the title, focus, and central premise. In full disclosure; I’ve been making a living off of Flash Platform technologies for over a decade.

Point being: I have a strong affinity to the Adobe Flash Platform and have a bright, positive outlook regarding the long-term future of my platform of choice.

It is important to keep things in perspective when discussing mobile technologies. Smartphones and tablets are still a very new area and we are all only now discovering how these devices can be integrated into our lives in a productive way.

We are also just beginning to discover what works and what does not work on these devices from a technological standpoint. They all have high-resolution screens, are using aging energy cell technology, run on minimal versions of an operating system, yet are our constant companions throughout the day.

Some tasks that we take for granted when using a desktop machine are poorly implemented in a small form factor, while others are spectacularly refined and directed, such as TweetDeck on Android. It is a balancing act right now and most of the industry players involved are doing an excellent job walking this tightrope.

The amazing thing is that in some ways, these devices do provide a level of experience that is, at times, very close to that of their desktop counterparts. I know that Flash Player runs most content quite well on my Motorola DROID and even better on the DROID2. We have near parity of features across multiple screens: desktop, smartphone, tablet, and the digital living room. That is quite an achievement!

This point is often lost on those who only see Flash as a technology for creating banner ads and watching videos. As a platform, Flash continues to push ahead with stunning innovation while retaining full backwards compatibility with existing content even content produced with FutureSplash Animator!

Consider this: while the current crop of mobile devices are still in their early stages, they are still incredibly underpowered when compared with desktop or laptop machines. Yet, Stage3D (Molehill) functionality was recently displayed running upon an older model Samsung Galaxy Tab during the FITC conference in Toronto this past week.

This is the same 3D functionality that has been available to desktop users through the Incubator program on Adobe Labs, but running upon a severely underpowered machine. That is really something of significance. As devices get faster, we can expect Flash to take advantage of this as well.

Have you tried to run some of the more intensive HTML/Javascript experiences on an iPhone or iPad? These experiments will bring the device to a crawl. Should be blame Webkit for this poor performance? Of course not; there is an understanding that the device is underpowered and cannot process the experience quickly enough to provide the ideal experience.

It is no different with Flash Player on those devices which may run with slower processors. The important take-away here is that Flash Platform runtimes run really well right now on this current generation of smartphones and as these devices become more powerful coupled with future platform innovation we have a killer platform on our hands.

Users of iOS understand that there are limitations on that platform — they accept these limitations and use the devices for what they are capable of, not for what they are incapable of. When given a choice, I believe most users would want to decide for themselves whether or not to install something like Flash Player on a device.

Considering how personal smartphones and tablets have become — it really is an affront to the dignity of the user to deny them, by corporate policy, the choice of doing so. Thoughts on Flash is often brought up as if gospel but in truth there are many problems with all of the points brought up by Apple CEO Steve Jobs.

[Next: Going beyond "Thoughts on Flash"]»

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Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet, is a technologist with over two decades of experience integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies.

Disclosure

Jason Perlow

My Full-Time Employer is IBM. I write as a freelancer for ZDNet.

Disclaimer: The postings and opinions on this blog are my own and don't necessarily represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.

I own no investments or direct financial instruments in the companies I write about.

Biography

Jason Perlow

Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet is a technologist with over two decades of experience with integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies. A long-time computer enthusiast starting the age of 13 with his first Apple ][ personal computer, he began his freelance writing career starting at ZD Sm@rt Reseller in 1996 and has since authored numerous guest columns for ZDNet Enterprise and Ziff-Davis Internet. Jason was previously Senior Technology Editor for Linux Magazine, where he wrote about Open Source issues from 1999 to 2008.

In his spare time, Jason is an avid amateur chef and food writer, where his work reviewing New Jersey restaurants has appeared in The New York Times. He is also the founder of the popular food web site eGullet and blogs about restaurants and cooking at OffTheBroiler.com.

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RE: Op-Ed: Flash is still relevant; perhaps more so than ever
Generalissimo 9th Nov
The restriction of Flash by Apple is more about streaming media than anything else.
Apple doesn't want a streaming media platform they can't control on their devices.
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Silverlight > Flash
Tim Acheson 4th May 2011
The inferiority of Flash is most evident on low-energy devices, like a Windows 7 Ultimate tablet or an Android tablet.

On a highy compact mobile device, HD video readily drops frames in Flash, so many videos on the web are very jumpy. On Silverlight the experience is much smoother, and indeed Smooth Streaming is one way to eliminate the problem.

No wonder Apple still refuses to support Flash on iPhone and iPad.
@Tim Acheson: every major point done in Jobs' article is fair (few minor "incorrectnesses" do not change the picture).

Specifically, there is Mike Chambers guy who goes great lengths to convince that Flash "moveover" and "rollover" sites work fine under touch UI in his Android, but fails to record that on video.

That is because in most of sites -- if you are on iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad and you do not have these events -- you have to click on the first-level menu item instead of seeing the menu to expand that would allow you to choose actual submenu item you want.

The video would have shown that user has to tap on first-level menu, loading separate page, from where he would tap the submenu item.

And all of that if size of Flash-powered menu is big enough because many flash sites are tiny in UI and do not scale.
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Known unknowns
Robert Hahn 4th May 2011
Whether or not a Flash app scales is a design choice made by the programmer. It can scale absolutely, scale as well as possible while maintaining aspect ratio, or not scale at all, depending on how a property is set.

Please do not make definitive comments in bold type unless you are reasonably sure that you know what you're talking about. If you don't know what you don't know, just leave that part out.
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@denisrs
You clearly didn't read Mike's post. He linked to this video in there: http://blog.theflashblog.com/?p=2027 .

Anything else?

Thought I'd add another link for you: http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/2010/05/examples-of-flash-content-running-on-android/.
@denisrs You're wrong. Rollover events work perfectly on Android and IOS. I just ported a Flash web app to Android and IOS today (Ipad1 & 2) and rollovers work perfectly using Adobe AIR. And scaling is a programming issue. If we want it to scale we can. It's another lie from Steve Jobs.
@johncblandii: it showed exactly the type of behaviour I described about menus and submenus. Not user-friendly at all.

Also, Chambers avoided these countless "stylish" tiny-UI unscalable Flash sites in the video.
@Robert Hahn: As I said, "many flash sites are tiny in UI and do not scale" -- that is indisputably correct.

These Flash sites are done in raster graphics and they at times horrible for navigation even for usual PC -- on big/good resolution monitors.
@Tim Acheson
Ummm...you realize the Smooth Streaming is adaptive bitrate, right? It means it goes up and down based on bandwidth/system resources.

Here is my rant of HD running just fine on an Evo [which is not as powerful as any tablet]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRS11rTVHAg.
@Tim Acheson - given the iPad has 256MB of RAM when competition has 512MB or more, that MUST be taken into account as well - Apple usually likes to sell lesser quantity of hardware for the price (a $2500 MacBook Pro containing solely 4GB is fairly embarrassing these days, even if all the other specs are worthy).

Having said that, in terms of raw processing power required, Flash still requires a LOT and needs to play "catch-up", though Adobe has been putting forth a strong effort, and there is far more to Flash than just playing movies or watching ads (which reminds me, nobody at the Apple stores (amongst other venues) has yet been able to answer how HTML5-based ads can be disabled, after their boastful bloviating on how they turn off Flash-based ads).

I develop for Flash, on a Mac no less, but I won't be blind to either platform's shortcomings.
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@Tim Acheson I'd take on your argument of Flash vs Silverlight, except for one thing... Silverwhat? No one knows what that is. Steve Jobs sure doesn't. If he did, you can bet we'd see a Thoughts on Silverlight piece.

It just hasn't gained the market penetration necessary to succeed ...and the mothership/MS is already putting it on the back burner. Which is sad actually, because it actually could be a strong Flash competitor. I have a lot of respect for the platform. It's made great strides in just a few years. At least it has a modern, strongly-typed OOP language available...unlike HTML/JS.
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Dear Tim Acheson,
FlashCanon Updated - 4th May 2011
You didn't really read the whole article very carefully, huh?

Edit: Looks like Johnny Vegas didn't either.
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on any of my devices. youtube will keep it alive for another year or two but after that hopefully pretty much everyone will be using broswers that support video without flash and block ads...
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Flash has life beyond Ads and Video
jonbcampos Updated - 4th May 2011
Ads, TAKE THEM.
Video, TAKE THEM - oh, but give up streaming, subtitles (sorry those that are handicap), oneplayer, and a few other luxuries.

As a Flash developer of many years I can say that I have yet to make one ad and haven't made a single video player. And guess what? Business is good, and getting better.

For those in 3D games, check out the new 3D capabilities of Flash.

For those into rich content, nothing beats how Flash handles audio and video across platforms, devices, and browsers. Even the most talented JS developers admit that it's a pain with HTML5.

For those interested in applications. Check out Flex and see how you can easily make some of the richest internet applications with ease.

And for those that want to deliver content across screens. Look no further than Flash and AIR. Android, BlackBerry, iOS, Web, Desktop (mac/win/linux), TVs all are supported by the Flash Platform. (Not to mention things like cars, refrigerators, vending machines, etc.)

Ya, Flash has a life way beyond Ads and Video, and AIR is Everywhere. As someone that needs to get content out everywhere, there is no other platform with the reach and quality of Flash.

Oh, and when you have ads made by html that you can't block that are made badly and bring your machine to a halt - well, you reap what you sow.
HTML can have all the crap developers too, while we're at it.
Let them go after the shiny new thing while we have our robust and adapted platform.

I had a LOT more to say, but this horribly written "Web 2.0" (or what most of you call HTML5 these days) allowed me to write without having fully verified my account. When I hit "reply" it cleared my content, and replaced it with an error telling me to verify my account...
Granted this could happen in Flash as well, you typically are used to having stateful applications, so these types of things are rarer.
Anyway... I'm over the idea of informing people of their short-sights on the HTML5-love. I say let them stay in the dark.
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@killerspaz

HTML5 is all well and good, but it is a standard and therefore inherently reactive. The boundaries will continue to be pushed by Flash, Silverlight, etc.
@offsideInVancouver What standard you are talking about.What are these browser prefixes then ? Is this a standard what about choppy audio . Every browser implementing a standard in its own way. What about HTML5 video .We need to encode our video in at least 3 formats what is this ? Google pushing on webm rest are pushing on H264 . What a mess is this standard .
@jonbcampos - well said, thank you! happy
@jonbcampos I agree that there's no need for flash in either ads or video. In the latter case, Flash does nothing but slow down the rendering of an H.264 file the OS can render natively. This is an absurd situation which came about purely because of the shortcomings of HTML4 and IE6 in the 1990s.

I accept that Flash is great at rich content. I don't agree that's it's full of bugs or a memory/cpu/battery hog as some say. There just isn't evidence for this. Steve Jobs is wrong on this.

But I start to question whether people need "rich content" at all on the web. That's starting to look so 1995. These days people want facts and information, not flash-y animations. The web is not a gee whizz gimmick anymore, it's a business tool, a source of information. Plus tablets make it so easy to install native apps, why do you even need web apps?
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Too many people have created opinions about Flash from what they are being told rather then researching the information or using a mobile device that utilizes it. A lot of this has to do with Apple, there's no other way to put it. I went to the Apple store on 5th ave in NYC & posted it onto YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1JS8b7p5A&feature=channel_video_title I wanted to find out what the employees at Apple were telling customers about Flash. Let's just say they weren't the best resource to discuss Flash. And the problem with this is that a lot of people go to them for information. The more Adobe puts out factual information about the Flash platform the better it is for everyone. Thanks for writing an article about this.
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Better off w/o Flash
JohnVoter 4th May 2011
Adobe's challenge is not merely convincing people that Flash can meet performance expectations without cutting battery life if half. They have to convince people that Flash is sufficiently robust and hacker proof.
@JohnVoter

[virtually] Nothing is hacker proof. Ask Sony. :-D
Yet in our shop we decided to stay off flash AIR on our website because of the iPad stupid lack of Flash. This is where the problem lies... Businesses are almost forced by Apple to stir off flash and that is a great shame because Flash AIR is the only way to push great applications through browsers...
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Not convinced
The Star King 5th May 2011
Simply stating "Flash is more important than ever" doesn't prove it. The author presents no real arguments to back this up. There is some good discussion about what a tablet is (ie not a PC), but going further down that path, there are a few other things a tablet does, which separates it from a PC (and tend to mitigate against flash):

1) Simple app store for app discovery, install update, removal.

One of the reasons PC users want to run apps in their browser is to obviate the need to install which is a complex, confusing, non-standard process on the PC. With tablets, this isn't really a problem. Native apps are always going to be better than web apps.

2) Full screen immersive apps.

PC users are used to playing postage stamp sized Flash games surrounded by ads which are surrounded by the frame of the browser itself (buttons, menus etc). This paradigm will not work with tablets where the whole concept of "windows" is unknown.

3) Touch operated. Flash is not great with this.

The author mentions the limited power of tablets. Why then is it preferable to play a H.264 file through an interpreted SWF program when the tablet has the native ability to play the H.264 file directly?
Sorry but this just stuck in my throat. The idea that iOS users are going to come across a website written in flash, put down their iPad and "bring up" a laptop to access the site is just absurd. No website is important enough for this, the user will just go elsewhere. People do not "interact with experiences" on websites, they look for information. Sorry, but this attitude seems awfully complacent, rather pompous. Website's are not works of art to be admired by users they are functional.
@The Star King Actually I had to do this just the other day for the Ferrari website. In this particular case it wasn't the "website" that was written in Flash, but a "functional" applet that the site used, which is a more appropriate use of Flash IMHO.

As a supercar enthusiast, I find a large portion of the web is crippled by the lack of Flash on my wifes iPad, and I really don't feel the solution is to change the sites to meet the demands of Apple.
The death of flash is a bit premature, as I watch a streaming tv episode ("Justified"from amazon via flash) on one monitor and type this comment on another monitor. Sure I have an internet ready blu-ray player, but I have the choice to use either, fortunately. Flash is a working standard and working standards have a way of sticking around.
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RE: Op-Ed: Flash is still relevant; perhaps more so than ever
alsobannedfromzdnet Updated - 5th May 2011
Too bad your work is irrelevant to most of the mobile browsing public, i.e. iOS users.
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Flash for videos or ads is such a small portion of what us flash developers use the platform for, that I think moving past that notion is something we should do.

I have been a long time developer in Flash and run our entire shopping system on this platform. Not so I can run any Ad or Video, but so that we can have a fluid experience.

Keep in mind the only reason the web was developed as a page by page, image by image system was because we were at modem speeds of 14.4 kbps. Remember those days? The web had to be broken down.

Not with our speeds of today. Now you can download an entire site in a 400 kb package. Which takes merely seconds, and then be all client side application from there.

I think in 10 years, you will download a website, not a webpage. And now when you move to the entire platform problem, Flash is leading in this area. Across devices is a lot different than across a browser!

I would like to see HTML 5 run from the desktop, or run as an app on my Television. App development for the desktop has been a huge increase in our own business and this notion that HTML 5 runs video, so flash is dead, is absolute ignorance.
"Smartphones and tablets are still a very new area and we are all only now discovering how these devices can be integrated into our lives in a productive way."

Lol...seriously??? New? Current product incarnations, yes. There were other incarnations 20 years ago. Remember the Newton? Thinking about how to use them productively has been going on for that long, and the apps on more recent incarnations flooded the market almost instantly (in internet time) upon the market becoming viable (iPad 1). Useful, productive applications were available in short order -- things that had never been available on the desktop.

"We are also just beginning to discover what works and what does not work on these devices from a technological standpoint. They all have high-resolution screens, are using aging energy cell technology, run on minimal versions of an operating system, yet are our constant companions throughout the day."

Minimal versions? Perhaps smaller...but that is relative to what...bloat?! These "minimal" versions are MORE useful, and EASIER to use, not less. Witness the touch interface, GPS/mapping-enabled applications, etc. These "minimal" systems are doing more useful things...very practical things.
Blackberry Playbook: Flash plus HTML 5 best of both worlds!
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To all trolls and SJ leftovers
Some of us not loosing faith in Flash platform because we can see few steps ahead. We are flash developers and this ability making us stronger as community over any other technology, just accept it wink

I am spreading the news about the new framework for Android and not only I am developing with performance in mind. looking for flash devd willing to help as well.

flaemo(dot)com/blog

And no 5% (iFans) will not change the web. But we will again as we did defining what is RIA about. And now is time for GPU 3D in your browser. If Adds and Video will go for HTML5, cool, I'll be happy to left this stinky area behind our platform (mainly using outdated AS2) and no longer destroying reputation of Flash Platform.
@devudesign

I am constantly amazed how many people can't spell "losing".
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In 50 years we can run everything on whatever.

As an Actionscript/Javascript/HTML/PHP and what not developer with 7 years of experience I truly believe that Flash will deliver great stuff in the future.
Awesome games made with Away3D. Rich interactive highly responsive web/tv applications. It will be brilliant.
Flash will be a very good content provider container.
But because there are apple products, I will throw in some jquery for them. It's sad.. but it's just a period.
I am working in the eLearning niche. There is a huge push for engaging and interactive content in eLearning. FLASH provides this perfectly and there are 1000's of freely available Flash resources for teachers to use and deploy on thier LMS of choise. There is also a huge push for mobile delivery via phones and tablet devices. In short, the lack of Flash support on such a perfect device (iPhone/Pod/Pad) simply frustrates me. The elephant in the classroom is simple. Flash support spells lost revenue from the App Store/iTunes/iTunesU (educational apps).

I will welcome 1 thing though. I challange the community to send me an HTML5 site that is as engaging as Flash sites were 10 years ago.
Well flash just so happens to run absolutely stunning on my Motorola xoom with flash 10.3 and honeycomb 3.1 including HD video. Amazon VOD is amazing, vimeo HD amazing, YouTube HD amazing, and many others. Google and adobe finnaly ironed this out
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"I have a strong affinity to the Adobe Flash Platform and have a bright, positive outlook regarding the long-term future of my platform of choice."

Too bad Adobe doesn't feel the same way.
The restriction of Flash by Apple is more about streaming media than anything else.
Apple doesn't want a streaming media platform they can't control on their devices.

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