Tech Broiler

Jason Perlow and Scott Raymond

Palm. HP. Who owns WebOS next?

By | August 18, 2011, 7:58pm PDT

Summary: With HP’s discontinuation of the TouchPad, Veer, Pixi and Pre, who is the next likely suitor for the WebOS?

So I predict that the HP TouchPad will fail to sell… oh wait a minute. I did that already.

Sigh.

Look, I didn’t kill the TouchPad! It’s… not… my… fault! I know I said some very bad things, like… that HP was incompetent… and their engineering efforts were awful… But I didn’t really mean it, okay? HP, will you bring the TouchPad back now? I’m sorry!!!! I’M SORRY!!!!!!!! Aggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!

‘Fer crying out loud, you don’t spend $1.2 Billion on a mobile hardware and software company, enter an extremely competitive market, and not expect to crack a few eggs with your first product.

And if Apotheker felt that HP didn’t need to commit to at least five years to establish a leading brand then… well… hell, maybe the company really is wacked.

So the TouchPad, the Pre, the Pixi and the Veer is dead. Let’s get over it. Let’s move on.

The question then remains: what happens to WebOS?

Well, my Editor-in-Chief, Larry Dignan has effectively outlined the “what” and the “how” in the equation.

What remains is the “who”.

I kind of feel like I’ve written this story before. Why… I wrote something almost exactly like this. Yesterday.

In fact I wrote something almost exactly like that one, but on Monday.

It’s failed mobile technology Groundhog Day!!!! Rise and shine campers, and don’t forget to put your booties on because its COOOOOOLLLLLLD OUTSIDE!

Sorry. I fully realize it’s the end of August.  I’m just having my regular end of week nervous breakdown.

Sooooo… companies different. But similar issues. Let’s go down the list of possibilities.

Option 1: HP Licenses the technology

Well, with HP canning the TouchPad, Pre and Veer this certainly makes my argument for partnering with a company like Amazon a lot more relevant than it was on Monday.

HP now has a homeless App Store for WebOS apps with effectively no devices to run them on, as it will cease development on TouchPad, Pre and Veer. Sure, there are maybe several hundred thousand or as much as a million or two WebOS devices in circulation, but total active WebOS devices? Not a lot.

The remaining 200,000-300,000 TouchPads in channel circulation are being liquidated. While this would seem to increase the size of the WebOS ecosystem significantly, until some definitive statements are to be made about who is going to run that App Store, or if the software is going to be licensed at all, WebOS 3rd-party development is almost certainly going to come to a screeching halt.

Licensing the technology of course would involve keeping the legacy Palm infrastructure alive as far as facilities and employees in order to continue to develop the OS. But now that the company has announced its intention to sell of their PC business, the likelihood of WebOS being used in other HP consumer products is probably nil.

I mean, they could put it in multifunction printer devices, but with no HP PCs to integrate it with, I’m not sure that still makes sense to have the “Palm” infrastructure and employees to continue to do work on an OS with no future at the company.

Would HP really keep Palm and WebOS around to license and produce no actual hardware just to run an App Store? That sounds like… so Google-ey. Or Microsoftish. You know, just like the old Google, before Monday. Before Googarola. Before the Empire…

So, licensing. It’s not out of the question. But now that this has become an absolute disaster for the company, the idea is a lot less sexy than it used to be, because it now looks like HP can’t do anything right, let alone start a software licensing business for WebOS. WebSource! Wait, that sounds kind of familiar too.

Option 2: HP sells off WebOS and the Palm division

While HP might initially try to make a mobile software licensing business out of WebOS, a la PalmSource or Android or even Windows Mobile, I’m going to put a stick in the ground here and say that Leo Apotheker really wants to wipe his hands of this meshuggener thing that Mark Hurd came up with and sell off the whole megilla.

So who are our prime candidates here? Well, you’ve got Research in Motion. Yeah, you heard me right.

Look, the QNX thing just ain’t working for RIM. The PlayBook OS is a difficult platform to develop for. It’s missing key functionality, such as integrated email and calendaring and personal information managment. And it has almost no apps to speak of.

WebOS, on the other hand, is much easier to develop for. It has a ton of integrated functionality already. And WebOS does have apps. Sure, we’re not talking iOS or Android level in the hundreds of thousands, but it has a few thousand decent apps.

Could you imagine RIM’s hardware quality and engineering paired with WebOS on a BlackBerry? It would be awesome.

Still, I don’t think a purchase of the WebOS assets by RIM can save the company at this juncture. It’s unlikely with the current management structure that they would switch horses on operating systems, even if they ported Luna to the QNX kernel making WebOS a full RTOS.

Maybe if RIM did it a year or two ago, before HP jumped in to the fray. But not now.

The best choice in my opinion is actually Amazon. Why? Because the company wants to get into the tablet and color e-reader business. And in light of the Motorola Mobility purchase, I think the likelihood of being able to stand out in the Android space is probably a lot riskier now than it was before.

And unlike HP, I actually think Amazon could make a go of WebOS, if it reserved it for its own products and curated an Appstore for the OS.

It is also worth mentioning that Jonathan “Ruby” Rubinstein, former CEO of Palm and SVP of HP’s mobile division/personal systems group that is being shuttered currently sits on the board of directors of Amazon.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if back-channel communication between HP and Amazon was already occurring to discuss licensing or outright purchase of the Palm assets.

The next two candidates are obvious, Samsung and HTC. Both of which could definitely go for having the intellectual property and patents of Palm to make their own branded phones with.

However, in my experience with most Asian companies and how they work with developer communities, I think that they’d completely fail at such efforts to run the WebOS App Store and generate interest in developing software. But they could buy WebOS and Palm just for the patent portfolio and scrap everything.

That would be horrible.

Final Candidate? Oracle. WebOS supports Java technologies and if Larry Ellison really wants to make a go at Google, I could see him doing it. For spite. And because his buddy came up with the whole wacky idea of buying Palm at HP in the first place.

Why wouldn’t he want it? Like, he could use it as the operating system to power his Iron Man suit. Or use the patents to sue more people.

“O-Phones”. Sure. Could happen.

Option 3: Open Source Tax Writeoff and Palm Physical Asset Divestiture

This option actually falls under the “Perlow, are you out of your freaking mind” category, but bear with me for a second.

Assuming HP does sell WebOS, it’s going to take it at a loss. HP purchased Palm for $1.2 billion. It’s not going to get $1.2 billion for the Palm/WebOS division. It’s lucky to get half that amount of money.

What if… HP donated WebOS to say, The Apache Foundation? As a Tax Write-off?

I’m sure HP’s legion of accountants and bean counters could come up with some creative accounting and valuation for the intellectual property elements of WebOS — the source code, the patents, the development hosting and build environments, et cetera.

Perhaps value that as a billion dollar plus gift to the Open Source Community, so that there would be a full-blown community-supported smartphone and tablet OS to compete with Android. The good will that HP would generate would be unfathomable.

As to the actual Sunnyvale, CA Palm campus and the employees that work in the mobile products division, well, you obviously can’t donate those. You’d have to find them new jobs within HP and re-purpose that campus, or those real estate assets would have to be either divested or leased out.

I guarantee you that between the write-off and selling the actual physical assets, the company might be able to do better in terms of recouping its losses than in an all-out asset sale to a competitor.

The employees in this scenario would almost certainly be let go if HP couldn’t find other employment for them within the company. But hey, HP, if you Open Source all of WebOS, it’s possible that folks like Ruby and his team might decide to take the Open Source version of that and go do something creative with it.

Maybe under this scenario, the spirit of Palm might not actually die.

Should Hewlett-Packard license WebOS, Sell off the IP and the assets, or Open Source it as a charitable donation? Talk Back and Let Me Know.

Poll

What should HP do with WebOS and the Palm Assets?

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet, is a technologist with over two decades of experience integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies.

Disclosure

Jason Perlow

My Full-Time Employer is IBM. I write as a freelancer for ZDNet.

Disclaimer: The postings and opinions on this blog are my own and don't necessarily represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.

I own no investments or direct financial instruments in the companies I write about.

Biography

Jason Perlow

Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet is a technologist with over two decades of experience with integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies. A long-time computer enthusiast starting the age of 13 with his first Apple ][ personal computer, he began his freelance writing career starting at ZD Sm@rt Reseller in 1996 and has since authored numerous guest columns for ZDNet Enterprise and Ziff-Davis Internet. Jason was previously Senior Technology Editor for Linux Magazine, where he wrote about Open Source issues from 1999 to 2008.

In his spare time, Jason is an avid amateur chef and food writer, where his work reviewing New Jersey restaurants has appeared in The New York Times. He is also the founder of the popular food web site eGullet and blogs about restaurants and cooking at OffTheBroiler.com.

39
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

uwvwrim 59 jby
cdfwekrdfe63-24379036429235870947346447271823 23rd Nov
tyinkw,fqbivksm27, kxcdc.
0 Votes
+ -
You know what?
IGNTNUNLMTD 18th Aug
I'm actually proud of you for this article.

I still don't forgive you for the libel against webOS Internals, but this article did make me respect your opinion a little more.

Instead of writing it off as completely dead like some ignorant journalists are right now, you're offering up ways it could LIVE.

Your last suggestion, though extremely unlikely, is a staggering and intuitive one that I've not read anywhere else. I can always hope, right?

Jason, thanks for this. Seriously.
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
@IGNTNUNLMTD Thanks.
0 Votes
+ -
@IGNTNUNLMTD:

Agreed. There are some good, honest, realistic points made in the article. My 1st gut reaction to the HP webOS news what that maybe RIM consider an acquisition of the Palm assets along with webOS rights. Both the webOS and BBOS seemed to be in a similar pattern...not as widely accepted in the market & by consumers as expected. The easiest way to keep them both alive would be to "quickly" swap their base OS with the Android OS and offer webOS & BBOS as included apps to run "on top" of the base OS. This would get more HP, Palm, BB devices in the hands of the consumers where they could gradually improve their OS as consumers get more accustomed to them. But it's just a thought --- be like everybody else & then slip in a new OS platform that can be tweaked over time while not making consumers chose a completely different (less popular) base OS.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Palm. HP. Who owns WebOS next?
UrNotPayingAttention 18th Aug
You make a great point w/ RIM, yeah, I'm interested to see QNX, but I think you're right... WebOS on RIM would be a far bigger hit.

Plus, why not? it's not like RIM has released QNX yet, looked at ~1 month's worth of sales , then decided to ditch it (Like HP just did, and MS' Kin) ...and at $500 million that would be a pretty good bargain. That just might keep RIM relevant for the next decade?

Amazon would be nice as well.

One thing you hit dead on, HP mgmt is very much wacked. Total disconnect from the Board of Directors to the real world. Like I commented on Ed's blog, whatever these guys are smoking, I sure would like to have some.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Palm. HP. Who owns WebOS next?
Peter Perry 18th Aug
QNX is miles ahead of WebOS in performance and the messaging subsystem will come.

Amazon won't touch this for a tablet but they might for an e-reader like the Nook Color.

Open Source Would be ideal because Android could make use of the patents and the two could actually converge into an even better platform.

Of course there is always the option of a completely seperate Open Source System but would it really take off?
0 Votes
+ -
@Peter Perry
If Google buys that, they will be tied their hands for 10 years with DoJ supervision for sure. Remember Microsoft Anti Trust Case. Since it was Microsoft, it was able to coup up because they had 2 major cash cows at that time. But here in the case of Google, it is Search Engine and with hands tied and OEMs starting to defect because of Goog/Mob integration, who knows what happens next. I would not invite risk when already a major FTC probe which could lead into AntiTrust going on.
0 Votes
+ -
I wonder is it so crazy to think about MS buying WebOS from HP for their IP & patents? Use the cool UI in WP7 (with the IP & patents in hand, it's easy to replicate the UI on the surface in the .NET platform) make it integrate well with Zune! MS already has a good market place, I don't think their tile based UI is really working well though! They surely need a better approach. So, I think if they combine the bright parts they may come up with a great platform and license it to the hardware manufacturers. Then, that would be a great device I would be buying in a heart-beat! What do you guys think?
The new user interface created by Microsoft has received rave reviews, read below before spouting incorrect data:
Response

Response to Metro has been generally positive. Engadget said "Microsoft continues its push towards big, big typography here, providing a sophisticated, neatly designed layout that's almost as functional as it is attractive." CNET complimented the Metro design, saying "it's a bit more daring and informal than the tight, sterile icon grids and Rolodex menus of the iPhone and iPod Touch." [5]
0 Votes
+ -
+100. Very good post indeed.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Palm. HP. Who owns WebOS next?
terry flores 18th Aug
Interesting article. I don't think HP could get even 20 cents on the dollar for selling off Palm/WebOS/TouchPad. In the eyes of consumers, the Palm brand is now a double failure.
0 Votes
+ -
@terry flores speak for yourself! There's nothing wrong with webOS and even the Pre3 that a company that has a little ingenuity and a little marketing sense could fix! HP has neither! The think selling in mobile space is like selling printer. This is 2011! HP had no vision and no patience. How long did they actaully own the WebOS product> How many products did they actually bring to market? HP is just a OLD company with an OLD mindset.

Those of us who actually have WebOS devices will be hard pressed to find a phone with half the innovation the of WebOS. The messaging features and synery are unmatched!
0 Votes
+ -
burnt several times already even if another company builds them consumers might be worried they will die again and they might end up again with a end of line, no support device.

Even if they sell WebOS to some company, it'll take a while to sort out the whole mess (look Rim and QNX: months and months already and stil no QNX phone, maybe next year... ), meanwhile it's competitors like Apple are racing further ahead, a few months or even a couple of years in tech time is an AGE.

by the time someone buys it and gets devices running WebOS will be a quaint dinosaur. By that time many people would already own iPads and locked in to the Apple eco system. So who would want to buy a WebOS device?
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Palm. HP. Who owns WebOS next?
lqr_up_frnt 19th Aug
Lol at the Larry Ellison scenario! He hates HP and is whacked enough to buy it and make it successful just to prove that Apotheker is a bonehead!

Good 1
0 Votes
+ -
HP has just killed one of the most promising platforms. Launch and kill??? Who's running the company???

Suddenly I'm glad RIM has two CEO's :))))
0 Votes
+ -
Amazon won't buy it and and they shouldn't. They've already made their bed with Android and their forthcoming tablets.
0 Votes
+ -
@djlong I thought Barnes & Noble had an Android based Color Nook but Amazon still hadn't launched a colour Kindle. Has Amazon announced or launched an Android-based colour Kindle, or did I miss something?

The only reason I haven't bought a Kindle is because I'm waiting some something in colour and B&N is US-only. I'd love to see a colour Kindle based on webOS, and I hope it a couple of other million people feel the same than Amazon might step in.
0 Votes
+ -
@CRMAddict
No Kindle Color (yet) buy there is an Amazon App Store for Android apps. I'd guess that's what's meant by 'made their bed with Android.'
0 Votes
+ -
wow nice call Perlow
Quebec-french 19th Aug
all your idea rock
but one thing for sure this situation is a game changer.
who ever buy this even at rebate if played well could become the forth wheel of this crazy wagon .

If RIM in a desperate move choose to jump in wow .... that could be lethal
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Palm. HP. Who owns WebOS next?
Gabriel Hernandez 19th Aug
The opportunities to save Web OS are large. Since now Google has bought Motorola, other Android parthners like HTC and Samsung won't have the IP, patents of source code and other advantages Motorola has for newer devices. HTC, Sony Ericsson and LG would find more WebOS much more attractive than Android, so HP could sell their WebOS and all related patents and intelectual property to these companies, so that each smartphone company owns the rights of the OS and doesn't need to pay any royalities, at the end, Samsung, HTC, Sony Ericsson and LG could be making more profits with WebOS than with Android.
0 Votes
+ -
@Gabriel Hernandez
This scenario seems like reinventing the wheel, the original wheel being Linux/Android. If webOS were licensed to multiple manufacturers or even donated to the OS community then there would be two disjointed fragmented OS's and neither would have the mass appeal that a good stable one manufacturer with its proprietary OS. Isn't that why Apple is so successful? Mind you I'm a Linux user but at times am frustrated by the multiplicity of distros and would like to see more consolidation, less fragmentation.
0 Votes
+ -
@bunkport Except bunkport, Android has mass appeal. An is controlling 50% of the market.
0 Votes
+ -
@bunkport
"Mind you I'm a Linux user but at times am frustrated by the multiplicity of distros" What frustrates you about more choice?
I have the distro I prefer to use, fedora, but I can use any of them. For people who use linux as their primary OS, the differences between distros are not a big deal at all. Which distros are you referring to that frustrate you?
0 Votes
+ -
Slow consolidation
Eric957 19th Aug
A week ago Android was under the threat of everyone else's patents, and WebOS looked a credible alternative. Now Android is comforted, hence WebOS may, er, die.

Isn't it that Be was acquired by Palm, and some BeOS heritage may be part of WebOS ? This code is cursed, there must be some ghosts in it...
0 Votes
+ -
I sat through a very intense HP/WebOS Sales Pitch last Thursday. Glad I didn't win the touchpad!
0 Votes
+ -
This Is a Pretty Good Article
CFWhitman 19th Aug
I especially agree with your reaction to the abrupt discontinuation of all WebOS devices by HP after such a short time. I'm thinking of all the WebOS device commercials I've seen in just the past week. Talk about a disconnect. The marketing machine is going forward at full force, and suddenly the company pulls the plug before the first ad campaign has run its course? Wow.
0 Votes
+ -
@CFWhitman That why this decision seems sudden to me. An is why I suspect the grossly inflated price for patents, and the hopes of starting a bidding war for WebOS between OEMs to give them a rival for Android is what made HP decision final.
0 Votes
+ -
If WebOS is to succeed, it will require the new masters to fully understand the philosophy, potential power, and penchant for productivity and not give a damn that Apple is selling a product with entertainment as it's main attraction. Like the turtle and the hare, the WebOS can prove it's xxxx and the integration of phone and pad could knock the socks off the whole I-stuff product line. Commitment and confidence is what is required. Who buys it or how open op it ends up would be beside the point. There is a market for WebOS. EVeryone, say "There is a market for WebOS!" Repeat 19 more times.
0 Votes
+ -
I suspect Google move may have spark the idea to sell WebOS and patents off. Why not there are bounds to be OEMs considering what there move is after Google Motorola tie up, if two or three of them are interested I could see a bidding war starting.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Palm. HP. Who owns WebOS next?
pablo.station 19th Aug
Ever since the Google/Motorola thing happened there have been a few little articles pop-up that suggest some of the Android hardware manufactures made nice with the merger but secretly dont like it. I dont know why but I get the feeling that a company like Samsung would go after WebOS. Samsung makes great hardware and there still seems to be a bit of a following for WebOS. The two together could potentially make some noise in the mobile market.
0 Votes
+ -
Amazon... HP...
voltrarian Updated - 19th Aug
The Amazon option seems to be a good fit. The OEM manufacturers may want to pay a higher premium however.

It's sad to see HP leave the PC business.
I'm not sure if this is a wise long term strategy.
0 Votes
+ -
Sure, go ahead and open source it, but it's going to get less of an audience than Linux gets now in the desktop/laptop/netbook markets.

Repeating the mistakes HP made by purchasing the leftovers of Palm, would doom any other company that tries to salvage webOS.

The competition is fierce and huge, with Android and iOS, but it gets even more scary when Windows 8 enters the scene. I doubt any other company would try to get the remains of webOS, that is, unless they're suicidal.

The only value for webOS might be in the IP that it contains, but other than that, it's dead.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Palm. HP. Who owns WebOS next?
Bob Dytkowski 19th Aug
I know that I am going to dump my WEBOS phone when my contract runs outs, and purchase an Iphone which is much more stable of a company than HP who really screwed up badly. Bunch of stupid jerks who should be fired by the Board of Directors of HP.
0 Votes
+ -
Amazon and RIM should both steer well clear of this fiasco. For Amazon it would just pointlessly and wastefully burn billions. For RIM it would truly end ND bury the company. Similarly HTC, Samsung, et al should also steer clear. No low margin OEM is going to succeed in building an entire ecosystem. No the sad fact is it makes no sense for anyone at this point ...
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Palm. HP. Who owns WebOS next?
jilindi@... 19th Aug
Who owns WebOS next?
Well... who owns the older Palm OS?

We know that HP intentionally killed Classic by Motion Apps on the WebOS platform.

Now they are killing the WebOS platform too.

My wife and I both have Palm Pre Plus phones. We hate the qwerky keypad but otherwise like the phone. She was really hot for a new tablet, I was suggesting the TouchPad but feel real lucky that I yielded I got her the I-Pad2 w/ 32GB like her friend has.

Final comment... HP - YOU SUCK!
0 Votes
+ -
I think it's a poor show...
johnmckay 19th Aug
I liked the look of it and was impressed with the concept but bought my Asus Transformer partly because the webos wasn't on the market. Thank goodness I got that right.

I'm appalled though at the many folk who bought into this and believe support will iron out the bugs. That appears a long way off now and I doubt they'll be too keen to buy HP products for a little while. POOR SHOW !
0 Votes
+ -
Selling it off is probably the one that makes the most sense. Trouble is, usually this doesn't happen and tech companies sit on their cast offs. I think this is mostly so they don't suffer the ignominy of having the product they were too dumb to make work be a massive hit for someone else.

Sad but true. So perhaps webOS will suffer the same sad fate as BeOS, OpenSolaris, and NewtonOS. I hope not, but I fear this will be the outcome.
0 Votes
+ -
Jason, you are close with number three. What HP will actually do is shut down the operation, lay off employees, take the tax break, keep the patents (for their life), and maybe in a couple of years will consider open sourcing the WebOS.

The key difference of course is they won't give up the patents unless they sell them.
0 Votes
+ -
Another great Perlow article!!
pberardis 24th Aug
A shape mind in action kudos.
0 Votes
+ -
uwvwrim 59 jby
cdfwekrdfe63-24379036429235870947346447271823 23rd Nov
tyinkw,fqbivksm27, kxcdc.

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix