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Zero Day

Ryan Naraine, Emil Protalinski and Dancho Danchev

Windows vs Linux security report card redux

By | June 6, 2007, 11:45am PDT

Summary: Jeff Jones has expanded his project to count security flaws (publicly reported and fixed) in the major workstation operating systems and his latest numbers show Windows Vista has by far the best security profile when compared to the major Linux distributions.

Orlando, Florida — Jeff Jones has expanded his project to count security flaws (publicly reported and fixed) in the major workstation operating systems and his latest numbers show Windows Vista has by far the best security profile when compared to the major Linux distributions.

Jeff Jones, security strategy director in Microsoft’s Trustworthy Computing group, led a TechEd 2007 discussion on the metrics and techniques used to keep track of vulnerabilities and offered a glimpse at his upcoming report card that compares flaws found/fixed during Vista’s first six months on the market against Windows XP, Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 WS (full), Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (full), Novell SUSE Linux Enteprise Desktop 10 (full) and Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger).

Here’s a chart from Jones with the results, which will be revealed in full in a few weeks:

Jones uses data from several public databases and vendor security bulletins to track “days of risk” and actual flaws being reported and patched to determine which workstation OS could be considered safer.

[ SEE: 90-day report card: Windows Vista fared better than competitors ]

He explained the difficulties — and dangers — associated with trying to get an accurate picture of the flaw landscape because of the different ways that vendors release flaw information in advisories and suggested that the NIST’s NVD (National Vulnerability Database) does the best job of aggregating flaw information across the board. Still, he warned against using the NVD as a foolproof database because it’s “only accurate for certain things.”

Jones also discussed some problems with rating the severity of reported flaws since all vendors use different rating systems. Some vendors, like Apple, offer no rating whatsoever, putting the counting/rating game into a bit of a subjective twist.

During a Q&A session, Jones provided a clue as to why Microsoft does not use the CVSS (Common Vulnerability Scoring System) to rate flaws in its bulletins, describing the methodology as confusing.

He made it clear he was expressing his personal opinion (not Microsoft’s official take on CVSS) before picking apart what he perceives as weaknesses in the system currently being used by Cisco, Oracle and several big-name vulnerability research firms.

“I don’t agree with how CVSS works,” Jones said. “I believe a rating system should provide practical usefulness for making decisions and CVSS doesn’t do that in all cases,” he added.

Specifically, Jones pointed out that the middle-range scores offered by CVSS can be interpreted differently. “I think a CVSS 10.0 is probably a 10.0 and a 2.0 or 3.0 is probably a low-risk issue. But, everywhere in the middle, it becomes much less definitive and confusing,” he added.

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Topics

Ryan Naraine is a journalist and social media enthusiast specializing in Internet and computer security issues.

Disclosure

Ryan Naraine

The most important disclosure is of my employment with Kaspersky Lab as a member of the global research and analysis team. Kaspersky Lab is a global company specializing in anti-malware and secure content management technologies. I do not own stocks or other investments in any technology company.

Biography

Ryan Naraine

Ryan Naraine is a journalist and social media enthusiast specializing in Internet and computer security issues. He is currently security evangelist at Kaspersky Lab, an anti-malware company with operations around the globe. He is taking a leadership role in developing the company's online community initiative around secure content management technologies.

Prior to joining Kaspersky Lab, Ryan was Editor-at-Large/Security at eWEEK, leading the magazine's and Web site's coverage of Internet and computer security issues and managing the popular SecurityWatch blog, covering the daily threats, vulnerabilities and IT security technologies. He also covered IT security, hacker attacks and secure content management topics for Jupiter Media's internetnetnews.com.

Ryan can be reached at naraine SHIFT 2 gmail.com. For daily updates on Ryan's activities, follow him on Twitter.

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denial
JABBER_WOLF 24th Dec 2007
1. Your imagination and Apple has repetedly been caught MORE THEN MS for hiding unfixed eploits

2.What personal opion? he made a list!!!

3.So non serious threats unfixed represents more a security risk? NOT !

4. Exactlty where are they falacious? I think your arguement for that has no gournds and itself is ********. THAT is the definition of "fallacious", not your opinion with no argument.

5.90 according to MS and Apple - they state this in their patches. Ya fricken retard!
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A Microsoft report skewed Microsoft's way.
linux for me 6th Jun 2007
Jeff Jones, security strategy director in Microsoft?s Trustworthy Computing group....

Come on.....Does anyone think that any report created by a Microsoft employee, would say otherwise?

Bogus article. I'll wait for an unbiased third party report, and we all know how THAT will turn out.
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give an unbiased report? No, but I will guess the "Third Party" you speak of will be that of the Linuc community.

And we do know how THAT will turn out. wink
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Wow That 3.2 Billion M$ Spends...
i2fun@... 9th Jun 2007
on viral marketing sure buys a lot of F.U.D.sicles for the "Monkey Man" to suck on! I guess you help by spreading all the Joy of F.U.D. around with the guy in this Blog with 8 eyes? hehe

So GuidingLight are you from their "WatchTower"? happy
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yeah...
Stuka 6th Jun 2007
This may be slanted towards MS as part of their anti-linux compaign, but I dont think its possible to get a completely unbias'ed report, unless you had a rep from each branch of the OS world working together on it. But the chances of that are nill.
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Why are the chances of that nil?
fuzzy2k 7th Jun 2007
Is it because the people who have the most to lose don't want to cooperate? Or is it the OSS crowd that refuses to work with the main two commercial vendors? I suspect it is the former, rather than the latter.

What would be useful would be a common set of analytical guidelines used by representatives from each of the major organizations concerned to produce several reports that might be compared side by side so that consumers could make a rational, reasoned choice.

Obviously that will never happen, because almost none of the parties concerned are about serving the customer. True CS is dead, passed away in the 90s' or earlier. The bottom line is the concern, and taking as many dollars as quickly as possible in exchange for as little reciprocal value as one can get away with seems to be the rule of the day.

A shame, imo.

Come the revolution, we will all use Linux and love it, as we walk uphill both ways to school and work, in the snow, with no shoes. We'll love that, too.
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wink

But if those parties are MS advocates, they are shills. Everyone talks about their favorite BS subject, and scorns the opposition. Whatever guy.
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You mean the third party?
LBean 7th Jun 2007
Objectivity is so old-school dontchaknow!
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Objective referees are hard to find.
osreinstall 7th Jun 2007
It may be old, but it is more honest and civilized.
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Shouldn't you...
rapson 6th Jun 2007
...at least investigate his methodology before coming to such a conclusion?

Carl Rapson
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Absolutely
nmh 7th Jun 2007
It's difficult to create a large bias in a dataset if that data is simply an aggregation of bug count data from third parties. Or are all of the third parties biased as well?

Before condemning the numbers at least wait until the methodology is understood.
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It's easy to skew the results...
JJQ1000 7th Jun 2007
... when you don't disclose 90% of the bugs in the OS. How long did the .ANI bug go undisclosed to the general public before it was patched with an "emergency update"?
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Shocking isn't it?

I've got to ask since so many "articles" seem skewed to favor Microsoft. Did a Redmond Washington corporation buy ZDNet?

Just curious.
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No! ZDNet is NOT connected to M$!
i2fun@... 9th Jun 2007
They just the messenger of the Beast from the Dark Side!

Not that they wouldn't take any of that 3.2 Billion M$ spends on Viral Marketing against their competitors. But hey, we all have to make money some way! Right? They are just helping to spread M$ lies. After all that's not illegal! Is it? wink
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Anybody else notice
frgough 6th Jun 2007
That the red unpatched to blue patched ratio is far greater in Vista than any other OS
on that chart?

In other words, Vista may have fewer overall flaws, but most of them are still
unpatched.

I'd like to see a third color on the bar: Unpatched and in the wild. I believe XP and
Vista will be the only bars with that color. Probably why it isn't there.
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How exactly
anthony@... 6th Jun 2007
Would one measure unpatched and in the wild? I'm a little confused about how we'd be able to measure undisclosed issues. I'd like to see it to, please pardon my ignorance in this regard.

~A!
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It would only apply
Stuka 6th Jun 2007
to known vulnerabilities that have known exploits in the wild. Such as the MS office holes that have shown up this year. Although many are patched now, for a while there people were being exploited.
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Maybe you are color blind?
xuniL_z 6th Jun 2007
Vista has the second least amount of red and XP has the very least. The ratio has nothing to do with anything. It's comparing the same time frame for each system.

Obviously all other systems had 10 to 100 as many flaws total, but from this graph you can't read at what point in time the unpatched flaws are from. Vista has so few overall flaws, they could have come from the last week of the time range.


This chart clearly shows that Vista was far more secure out of the gate than any OS in history.
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Good One
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 6th Jun 2007
9.3 on the Coxometer.

and vendor security bulletins to track ?days of risk? and actual flaws being reported

and we all know MS is beyond diligent at disclosing every security problem they know about internally. They have never sat on problems they know exist or are circulating in the wild.

See my and Jimbo's posts below on how to make the comparison valid, notwithstanding the vulnerabilities MS knows about but are sitting on.

TripleII
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Do you even know, for certain
xuniL_z 6th Jun 2007
why microsoft has a monthly patch cycle? Or why they may sit on a given reported flaw?
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xuniL_z you are a plant.

Not a very good one at that.
We all know how that routine goes:

1) Flaw is discovered in the wild by third parties
1a) If the third party is a security outfit, the pass the word
1b) If the third party is a hacker, they exploit it
2) MS issues a release saying that there is no known flaw
3) MS issues a release saying that the flaw only affects "a handful of systems, which are not properly set up or don't have the latest updates installed"
4) Security outfits warn about the increasing number of exploits, and provide fixes to protect the weak point in the MS code
5) 6 months later, MS releases a patch, marked CRITICAL and advising every user to install the update
6) The day after the patch is issued, the next exploit for the flaw is released, which evades the sloppy MS patch and goes straight into the OS
7) GOTO Step 3
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Optimal strategy
Yagotta B. Kidding 6th Jun 2007
Disclose nothing until (if) you issue a patch. Your "disclosed but unpatched" count goes to zero.
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Not entirely possible
Azriphale 7th Jun 2007
It is more often people outside of the organisation doing the disclosing of unpatched security issues, sometimes to bring them to the attention of the vendor, and sometimes for other not so noble causes. In this case it's not possible to regulate the disclosing of information.
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I am assuming that
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 6th Jun 2007
The vulnerabilities are in Vista and Vista alone whereas the count for the Open Source counterparts includes the kernel and any of the 11,000 installable applications that exist and CAN be run on Linux.

Gaim, Amarok, Apache, and on and on, if they had a vulnerability, it gets put into the "Linux" bucket.

From the link
He acknowledged that many of these bugs covered components that Red Hat ships and supports

So, let's compare apples to apples. Find the core operating system bugs, leaving the 3rd party apps aside or list every vulnerability for any application that can run on top of windows Vista.

TripleII
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Example
Yagotta B. Kidding 6th Jun 2007
Are the recently-announced Adobe Reader bugs counted against RHEL?
Are they counted against Microsoft?

If one and not the other, why?
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Does ZD Net want to investigate?
shis-ka-bob 6th Jun 2007
That seems like an excellent question. In the past, we usually see that any application in a Linux Distro has be counted against that Distro. There could be even more severe double counting. Suppose that a bug is discovered in Spring's security module. Is this one bug or is this a bug in any application that uses Spring? Is each bug fixed when Spring is patched, or do we keep the clock running until each application that uses Spring publishes apps that use the patched jar files for Spring? A single bug in a Microsoft shared library can similarly compromise several applications. Can we hope for some sort of thoughtful analysis by the journalists at ZDNet?
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A bug in zlib four or so years ago was the biggest cascade down bug I recall
seeing. Everyone had to patch lots of stuff because the library was statically
linked. I honestly don't think a deeper analysis would provide sufficient
illumination in this case and to some degree a deeper analysis is motivated
because the gross results don't fit one's expectation.

On one hand, charging Apple and Canonical for a disclosed and unfixed Apache
bug may be unfair as the bug was created and needs to be fixed by someone else,
on the other hand those folks include the software in their distributions and the
bug is a problem for their users. (Though, and this is a point occasionally lost in
these debates, the apache package may not be installed on the vast majority of
LInux systems and for a lot of Macs, while it's installed, it's always off.)

For me, the basic flaw with these studies is they count fixes as problems. I'm also
not sure what the point was in looking at the first six months, unless this was
about making Vista look good. My recollection was that XP had a pretty good first
year and then the roof caved in, requiring SP2 and the security woodshedding. To
my way of thinking, not all flaws (if they could be counted) are equal: remote
exploits are a lot more troubling than local user privilege escalation faults.

And... where are the BSDs?
6 months after release of each OS respectively.
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Neat trick
Yagotta B. Kidding 6th Jun 2007
this comparison is only for the first 6 months after release of each OS respectively.

And how long was MSWinVista out before the report?

Let's see: Release date for MSWinVista: 30 January 2007. Six months later (late July) ... Yup, looks like the Acrobat Reader bugs made the cut.

Actually, I'm really impressed by a methodology that's capable of comparing the number of bugs found and fixed in the first six months after release of this product, since there are still a couple of months to go. (I trust that the author had the integrity to refrain from comparing three months of MS to six for others.)
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Sorry, but...
themp 6th Jun 2007
Vista was released in November of 06 to corporations and computer distributors.
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About that Adobe bug?
Yagotta B. Kidding 6th Jun 2007
So by all means tell us: was it counted?
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If you say so
Yagotta B. Kidding 6th Jun 2007
However, the new one is RHEL 5.

The one cited in the report is Red Hat Enterprise Workstation 4 -- which was released in February 2005.

Don't feel bad.

Now: about that Adobe bug?
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no, you said so....
xuniL_z 6th Jun 2007
Are the recently-announced Adobe Reader bugs counted against RHEL?
Are they counted against Microsoft?

If one and not the other, why?


It was you wondering if a recent bug had been applied against a 2 year old system for it's first 6 months of availability.


Don't feel bad. Now about that adobe bug?
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Vista released in November 06
ITguy5678 7th Jun 2007
Actually Vista was released in November of 06; albeit to just business customers, but released none the less.
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He starts with, "Example"
Logics 6th Jun 2007
It is a hyperthetical question concerning methodology.

Here is a much clearer question:

If a Bug existed in Adobe Reader within six month of the release of RH 4 and a different Adobe Reader bug existed within the six months of the release of Vista, will the first bug count against RHL and will the second bug count against Vista?
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i didn't catch it. s/he asked specifically if the recent adobe reader bug was counted for both. Perhaps I don't know h/er/im well enough to know what you say is the meaning of the question. Talk about reading between the lines.


however, in your scenario, i'm quite sure he was trying to match OS or distro specific flaws as much as possible. It sounds to me you and others think a Microsoft person is innately incapable of being fair or honest.
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So what is the answer?
Logics 7th Jun 2007
He asked, Are they counted," in each case and furthermore, "if so, why?"


It sounds to me you and others think a Microsoft person is innately incapable of being fair or honest.



It sounds to me like we are trying to establish if they are so capable. The question, again, goes to methodology. The answer will tell if the report is fair and honest.

In other words, we do not know and would like to find out.

Because we question someone it only means we are searching for truth. If we do not question anyone it means we trust them to make our decisions. In the words of Albert Einstein, "Question everything!" He said this in regards to his own papers. Will MS say this in regard to their own papers?

It doesn't matter. I will question Bill, Linus, Steve, Dubya, Benedict and anyone else who says, "Trust me, I know what I am doing," especially myself.
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But we should do so fairly. Your line of questioning has immediate assumptions that he is under counting for Windows and over counting for Linux. So, to put this very simply, we must ask questions and get anwsers that satisfy our criteria, but we should not start that discovery process with assumptions and glaring biases. That is not going to get you anywhere in life. Try telling the person at the McDonalds driveup his order taking ability sucks and you are only stopping there, rather than Wendys because you are desperate. Just imagine what's in that sandwich as you eat it. yum yum.

You get the idea. Ask kindly, fairly and with no bias, or don't bother.
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Bugs..6 Months.?
Peconet Tietokoneet-21703818799325819467806990363298 10th Jun 2007
Easy to reply to the main question about less bugs then the other operating systems (MS V'S LINUX and APPLE). Basically people have found that componants or add ons do not work as well as they should and are switching back to Xp, Linux or going over to Apple. In this day and age when you bring a/or product(s) on the market people want the product to work with their printers, scanners, mobile phones etc etc. Not to be told to hang on and wait for a patch or two. So Microsoft do a little in house check with your Operating system before releasing it to the public, that way you will be praised well instead of getting a mouth full from customers.
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There is no data to show ...
ShadeTree 7th Jun 2007
... that this bug was counted or not counted. I believe anything that shipped as part of the install media should be fair game. You ship it you own it! If a Linux distro includes Acrobat Reader as part of their distro then its bugs should count. Likewise if Microsoft includes IE its bugs should count also.
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no no no.....lets look closer
xuniL_z 6th Jun 2007
here is the reduced set, even though the original set all shipped with the OS as components, therefore would count under any other measure.

reduced set of OS specific.


During the first 90 days, Red Hat fixed 137 vulnerabilities affecting the reduced rhel4ws set of components. 40 of those addressed were High severity.
At the end of the 90 day period, a total of 64 publicly disclosed vulnerabilities in the reduced set of components did not yet have a patch from Red Hat.
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Still not accurate
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 6th Jun 2007
The reduced component set you are referring to still includes hundreds of applications independent of the core operating system. These include the LAMP stack, for example, that is part of the core system RH supplies.

TripleII
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should be avoided at all cost because it's loaded with flaws. I totally agree with you. That's why I use Vista with the .NET stack, SQL, IIS and ASP.NET. Much more robust, capable, less flawed, you know. (Which incidently, all come on Vista except for SQL server, which has maybe one security bulletin every year or two.)
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You are entertaining, in a strange way.
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 6th Jun 2007
When you include several thousand apps (of which LAMP is simply an example, I know strange concept, I should have listed all of them, like PHP, Net Tools, etc...) with your core release, you are going to have a lot of updates, some security related, many bug fixes, and general updates. It's easy when you include, as a core app, a browser, notpad, and a couple games.

TripleII
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i guess we're even.

Please Mike Cox of the Linux world, don't be totally absurd about it. browser, notepad and a couple of games....are you serious?

What about the 15 GB OS? What about .NET 3.0? or IIS? Or ASP.NET? What about all of the networking tools, new GP enhancements..on and on.

But the bottom line is, they didn't say what the reduced component set was and you have to believe they took out the LAMP stack.

You know what is interesting (yet highly predictable), any other day you'd be telling me how Microsoft tries to put too much into their OS....like you and your boys do all the time.

Yet, bring Red Hat to the party and we are singing a new tune, aren't we? dang!
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I know I shouldn't do this but...
Logics 6th Jun 2007
...counting only the apps that 1) are integrated into the OS and 2) are installed by default and 3) branded by the software publisher, what is the count for RHL and what is the count for Vista?

By 'count' I mean, number of vulnerabilities, etc.

Furthermore, Linux and all the stacks shipped --whether default installed or not-- being open sourced lends themselves to the early discovery of bugs/vulnerabilities. Vista and all the stacks shipped or downloadable from MS being closed source do not lend themselves to early discovery of bugs/vulnerability.

I am more interested in the numbers for the second nine months. We know that OSS will have high numbers in the first nine months and then very little thereafter. It appears that Windows numbers remain steady thoughout the lifetime of the product.

Hmm!
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What a winding road we are taking.
xuniL_z 6th Jun 2007
Furthermore, Linux and all the stacks shipped --whether default installed or not-- being open sourced lends themselves to the early discovery of bugs/vulnerabilities.


So what you are saying is that Linux distros are shipped in an alpha or beta form, before any serious testing and QA? Sure sounds that way to me. I was thinking the nature of OSS produced more bug free software from the get go, not after the fact. I haven't seen, whatsoever, that the bug window for OSS software is the 6 months post release and then it's good while MS sinks into an abyss. I see the Linux OSes receiving patches at the same or sometimes higher rate than Windows throughout their lifecycle. Any OS or project is always growing and changing causing more flaws. A great example is the Mozilla suite of products. FF in particular has reached a large marketshare on the desktop compared to most Linux projects and this shines a brighter light on the reality of OSS software. FF has not fared any better than IE of late, being the last few years, and perhaps worse. There is much talk of it being too bloated, slow and prone to crashes. Most obscure linux OSes don't even have their flaws publicized, while Consistently patched over the course of it's lifetime. As it grows, so does the number of patches. Same for any OS. Could it be that software in general, is difficult to write w/o imperfections? I think for now, however, you have to give the nod to Vista as the most secure OS. Only time will tell but you cannot predict this based on bias and be professional at the same time. The 1990s battering of Microsoft continues today w/o any appreciation for the great strides in security and reliability. Vista uses the server 2003 kernel and was written using a security specific methodology...a state of the art methodology. For now, it's the most secure.

I do see what you are trying to say about open source and finding bugs more easily as many more can view the source. I just don't believe any given project has anymore resources post launch than Microsoft. It's just too easy to say that, meanwhile the flaws keep coming.
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What is so hard to get?
XJRider 6th Jun 2007
Vunerabilities for Redhat or others include the core operating system plus every software package released and supported by Redhat. This means software that is not necessarily installed by default or the end user but is available by choice i.e Media Players, IM clients, browsers, Email Clients, development tools, photo editing software, CD/DVD writing software and various tools associated, server etc etc etc

To compare windows to this would mean including more than just a base install because be honest here, there is not much more included than just the basics. Include ALL software that is readily available to install on windows and also list their vunerabilities and flaws and associate them with windows. Do you think that would be a fair comparison and give you an accurate picture of security? No of course it doesn't and this is the point.
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Yeah, what is so hard to get?
xuniL_z 7th Jun 2007
Notice Ubuntu had many more flaws in it's first 6 months. Do you suppose he included more than the OS there? And if you read on and read the links, he reduced the rhel set to not include the extra components and it still had a far greater number of flaws than Vista. Also, as i said, vista is a 15 GB OS. That is A LOT of code. It includes many comparble components, out of the box, found in the LAMP stack, only more robust and of better quality. As Ye puts it below, if you are going to claim the 11K apps for Linux makes it strong, then stick with it. We are not just talking about the kernel for Linux or Windows here.
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denial
JABBER_WOLF 24th Dec 2007
1. Your imagination and Apple has repetedly been caught MORE THEN MS for hiding unfixed eploits

2.What personal opion? he made a list!!!

3.So non serious threats unfixed represents more a security risk? NOT !

4. Exactlty where are they falacious? I think your arguement for that has no gournds and itself is ********. THAT is the definition of "fallacious", not your opinion with no argument.

5.90 according to MS and Apple - they state this in their patches. Ya fricken retard!

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