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Stephen Chapman
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SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010

By | October 6, 2010, 6:40am PDT

Summary: Bing officially replaced MSN back in June of 2009, so why do SEOs still purport to increase rankings for MSN? Time to change that. It’s “Bing” now, people!

This actually rhymes, so say it with me now: “Stop saying MSN if you live in twenty-ten!”

After receiving an email from an Internet marketer yesterday who offered SEO (Search Engine Optimization) services to increase my rankings in “Google, Yahoo, and MSN,” I had just one snarky thought course through my head (which I then posted on Twitter):

Seriously. If you’re an SEO consultant/freelancer/agency right now in 2010 and you want to offer customers value and truth, then at least get the names of the search engines right! Bing officially replaced MSN as Microsoft’s search engine almost a year-and-a-half ago, so why not take the 15-45 seconds to fire up Dreamweaver (or whatever you use to edit Web pages) and make the change(s) on your site? And while you’re at it, how about those emails you’re pushing out, too? And, yes; I realize you can still go to MSN, but the search engine it utilizes is Bing. Microsoft has integrated the functionality of Bing into almost every product of theirs at this point: MSN, Windows Live, Xbox 360/Live, Windows Phone 7, et al. There’s even a Bing app for the iPhone, Blackberry, and Android!

That’s right; a Bing app. Not an MSN app! But a Bing app.

The SEO landscape is one that is inherently filled with hills and valleys, so with all the changes in terminology and techniques that we must adapt to, I’m a bit puzzled as to why this one has eluded so many people. I mean, I know that Bing is really only worth mentioning insofar as it’s Microsoft’s search engine (let’s face it: its market share is nowhere near Google’s at the moment and all we SEOs *really* care about is Google), but still. It’s not MSN, it’s Bing.

Let me clarify here that I’m not blasting all of my wonderful friends and colleagues in this industry who still say “MSN.” I’m simply saying that it’s outdated verbiage and something that only puts you in the company of outdated SEOs who use it out of ignorance (and that’s giving them the benefit of the doubt). A year-and-a-half later, it just *might* be time to stop saying “MSN” and start saying “Bing” — no matter how much you may hate saying it. :)

“Stop saying MSN if you live in twenty-ten! Stop saying MSN if you live in twenty-ten!”

-Stephen Chapman
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Stephen is a freelance writer based in Charlotte, NC.

Disclosure

Stephen Chapman

Stephen Chapman is a freelance writer and content strategist. All work that Stephen does for ZDNet is on a contractual basis.

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Biography

Stephen Chapman

Stephen is a freelance writer based in Charlotte, NC.
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myclub Updated - 6th Jul
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No, it is freaking MSN. Sure they changed the name, but it is still the
DonnieBoy 6th Oct 2010
same JUNK. We could give a sheeeet about Microsoft's marketing speak.
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Contributr
RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
StephenChapman 6th Oct 2010
@DonnieBoy Actually, it's not the same product. Bing is far from junk; it's just that people don't care enough to actually give it a fair chance. Bing beats the crap out of Google for shopping, travel, and its map functionality is wonderful. Likewise, Windows Phone 7 may well stand a chance to finally regain mobile market share for Microsoft. If that happens, then you can expect SEO lingo to really pick up for optimizing for Bing local (something I'll delve into in a future post).

Anyway, Bing is so much more than Microsoft's "marketing speak." While the search engine they used for MSN was still in use, Microsoft was developing something brand new that went by the codename "Kumo" -- now known as "Bing." Being a Microsoft bigot is something I'm not sure I'll ever understand -- especially when they actually put out a quality product that people could very well benefit from, like Bing.

-Stephen
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RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
explodingwalrus 6th Oct 2010
@StephenChapman ********, when's your cheque from MS due?
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RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
cgarrett 6th Oct 2010
@StephenChapman Way to go! I did take 5 minutes away from Google to use Bing, and I think it's a good product. It's not for me, but I agree that its mapping and a lot of other things are improved over Google - and much more aesthetically pleasing.

I went straight back to Google after that. Too much of a shift for me. Google just caters to me much better. I can't do without street view now, and I can just read search results much faster there.
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RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
linux-user 6th Oct 2010
@StephenChapman Sorry, but I try Bing once in a while, and find it less accurate and limited. I've never found an advantage for using Bing compared to Google results, to the contrary there's less there. It may be different than MSN, but why use an inferior product?
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RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
jeverettk 6th Oct 2010
@StephenChapman
"it's just that people don't care enough to actually give it a fair chance"

Aww poor widdle bing.
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RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
jeverettk 6th Oct 2010
@StephenChapman
Butt seriously, not only do I hate how it works for search, butt also the whole "decision engine" thing gives me the effin' creeps bigtime and especially because it's MS(N?oh).
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Contributr
@explodingwalrus
StephenChapman 6th Oct 2010
lol @ the thought that MS pays me simply because I find value in a product of theirs. Once again, I fail to understand the bigoted attitude towards Microsoft -- especially with Bing. Have you ever *actually* used it for travel or shopping? Clearly not -- which is fine, because not everyone rolls like that. All I'm saying is that Bing provides plenty of value -- even if it's not readily apparent to you initially.

Do I search the Web with Bing? No. I search the Web with Google. What I *do* use Bing almost exclusively for is shopping and travel endeavors. Consider the time and money I save using those functions of Bing as the equivalent of Microsoft giving me a check, if you will. And in that case, Microsoft could be putting money in your pocket, too... but I understand that the value of hating Microsoft for some people is greater than saving money and that's cool! I don't get it, but it's cool! wink

-Stephen
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Bing losing market share?
Justin James 6th Oct 2010
Last I heard, Bing was steadily GAINING market share. Nowhere near Google, of course, but if there's a decline in market share for Bing, it's a one month number, not a trend.

J.Ja
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Contributr
RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
StephenChapman 6th Oct 2010
@Justin James You're absolutely right. I based that comment off of Ballmer's recent comments about Bing (which I wrongfully assumed related directly to its market share). As such, I've edited that comment appropriately! Thanks for the feedback. happy

-Stephen
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Bing Gaining Market Share??? I'm Not Shure About That...
linux-user 6th Oct 2010
@StephenChapman I'm not too sure about basis of the statistics for Bing's market share. I find that many Web pages have those annoying pop-ups that are triggered by mousing-over a link (not clicking on a link). They are exclusively pop-ups driven by Bing and Bing maps. I've unintentionally accounted for thousands of them. They are annoying and unwanted. However, if the Web page hit counters are counting these as Bing searches.... ell they are way off.

Since I brought it up, does any one know how to turn them off in Chrome and Firefox? Pop-ups are being blocked in the generic options. Thanks
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Cause it's the default
itguy08 6th Oct 2010
@Justin James
For those on IE. Smart people move away from Bing to Google....

BING! Failure.
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Contributr
RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
StephenChapman 6th Oct 2010
@itguy08 "Smart people" move away from Bing to Google? Why, because only "stupid people" would *ever* use Bing? lol. *facepalm*
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RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
Brammie2118 6th Oct 2010
@itguy08 smart people move the hell away from Google wink
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RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
RonanSail 6th Oct 2010
Bing is a decent product. So is google.

I use both search engines together quite happily because I am smart that way!

I make a personal effort to reject any brand loyalty instincts I may have!!!
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Contributr
RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
StephenChapman 6th Oct 2010
@RonanSail This is great feedback and a very important point I don't think too many people consider: Acting purely out of brand loyalty can really be a detriment to how one might otherwise enjoy any other product! Kudos for being one of the seemingly few who see value in both Google *and* Bing. happy

-Stephen
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Contributr
@cgarrett
StephenChapman 6th Oct 2010
Thanks for the feedback! I'm essentially in the same boat, with the exception of travel and shopping. Those two functions of Bing really won me over, big time. Google still tremendously wins the day for typical Web browsing and researching, though. I'm not sure that will ever change for me.

-Stephen
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Contributr
@linux-user
StephenChapman 6th Oct 2010
I wholeheartedly agree that Bing's Web results are inferior to Google's -- at least in the way I search the Web, but where shopping and travel are concerned, Bing bests Google incredibly. And for someone who does a lot of online shopping and a fair amount of travel, I only offer my support openly for Bing because I've found it incredibly useful. So... hopefully, people will just take that for what it's worth. As I noted in a comment above, though -- I don't foresee myself using Bing in lieu of Google for typical Web search/research any time soon.

-Stephen
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Contributr
@linux-user reply 2
StephenChapman Updated - 6th Oct 2010
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/online_mobile/bing-overtakes-yahoo-as-the-2-search-engine/

It's more than just pop-ups that you've supposedly accounted for "thousands of." I can't help but giggle that that generalization. wink If you took what you said and spread it across every user of the Web, then those metrics would surely take Bing WELL above where it is now. I mean, "thousands of?" How many are we talking here... 1000? 9999? 847,646? lol.

-Stephen
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RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
linux-user 6th Oct 2010
@StephenChapman Well... it seems like thousands. I'll have to use noscript more often.
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Contributr
RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
StephenChapman 6th Oct 2010
@linux-user By all means, if you're really *that* concerned with your theory that you're contributing as much as you think you are to Bing's market share numbers, go for it. wink

Sarcasm aside, for all anyone knows, you may actually be onto something. Sounds like a good opportunity for a case study to me (though I seriously doubt you will want to invest any more time into Bing than the boundaries of this current discussion). happy

-Stephen
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Contributr
@jeverettk
StephenChapman 6th Oct 2010
Oh, hey! Look, everyone... The Internet (aka "jeverettk") decided to show up and tell us all what the majority of it thinks about Bing! I'm really glad it did that, because I don't think I've ever seen anyone say those things about Bing before! grin

-Stephen
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RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
steveplunkett 6th Oct 2010
Fyi.. some analytics still show MSN as the search bot.. #imjustsayin =)
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Contributr
RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
StephenChapman 6th Oct 2010
@steveplunkett It's a conspiracy, I tell you! A conspiracy! #seriouslythoughitsaconspiricy =D
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To Review or To Rant ...
Trep Ford Updated - 6th Oct 2010
Myself, I enjoy reading certain product and service reviews. They provide me with insight into the advantages and disadvantages of various things I might not yet have had a chance to try. Some reviews convince me to try things while others convince me not to bother. I look at the writer's evaluation of features, compare it to my own personal needs and preferences, and decide for myself what seems like the best fit ... for me.

Personally, even though I sometimes write them, I don't usually enjoy reading product and service "rants". Such posts usually consider the writer's personal point of view and set of preferences to be, by the nature of their innate superiority, exclusive of any other point of view or preference. For me, sharing experiences of various products and services is useful. Vehemently condemning others for having different points of view and preferences seems not-so-useful ... to me. And yet, I sometimes do it. Why?

Is there any truth to the underlying assumption behind rants, that everyone should share one point of view and one set of preferences? By my experience, no. So why do people do it? When I do it, why do I do it?

In those moments of writing a rant, we feel threatened by the existence of points of view other than our own. We fear that the existence of other points of view is a direct threat to viability of our own point of view, which we are quite certain, in that moment, is the best point of view, to the exclusion of all others. Our point of view is, so we think, the truth.

Rants are aimed at making us writers, who feel insecure in that moment, feel more comfortable in the permanence and unassailaility of our own point of view. We're wrong, but that's why we do it. If we were truly confident or certain in our point of view, the thoughts of others would matter little to us.

If you're like me, and you usually find such rants pretty useless, what to do when you run into one? Just skip over it. Ignore it. Like school yard bullies, we ranters only intensify our activities when acknowledged and recognized. You know it's true. If no one responds to your rants, you know you chill out faster than if 50 people tell you you're wrong ...

So if rants bug you, like they usally bug me, just skip over them. They'll fade from your attention quickly enough.

But what if you're not like me? What if you ENJOY ranting and reading rants and adding to the whole frothy mess that stems from the back and forth trading of insults and opionions posing as facts? Well, if you enjoy that sort of thing, dive in!!! With both feet. Don't hold back. Enjoy!! It's a free country and a free internet, so far. Knock yourself out. Rant until you can't rant any more. Who's stopping you? Not me. I might ignore you if you don't amuse me, I might fire back if you do ... but I would never even think of trying to stop you. Life at it's best is all about freedom, so long as you're not doing harm to others. And tolerance, in its truest form, must extend even to the intollerant, so long as they aren't hurting anyone.

Don't agree with me? Rant about it ... I don't mind.
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Contributr
RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
StephenChapman Updated - 6th Oct 2010
@Trep Ford I actually took the time to read that whole thing.

I guess the only thing I disagree with you about is the premises of ranting. A rant is not directly proportional to an opinion. One can certainly rant about a truth. As such, the basis from which my rant was written is based on a truth. It had nothing to do with the threat of the existence of opposing points of view (personally, I welcome opposing points of view as they fuel dialogue which can result in growth and education).

The fact of the matter is that MSN -- as a search engine -- no longer exists and has failed to exist for well over a year now. Yet, people who call themselves "search engine optimizers" still make reference to "MSN" instead of what was developed in place of it almost a year-and-a-half ago: Bing.

If I'm a client who has been hearing about and seeing "Bing" for all this time on TV, online, et al, then why am I even worried about my rankings for "MSN?" What is "MSN" anymore? A mere portal now, that's all. Rankings in Microsoft's search engine have nothing to do with MSN anymore; they have to do with Bing.

As for the comments so far, well... I would say all that ranting about Bing follows much more closely to what you're saying. wink

-Stephen
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RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
Trep Ford 6th Oct 2010
@StephenChapman - Thanks for reading, and I should have pointed out that my comments were directed at some of the responses to your article, not the article itself, which, despite the title, didn't seem like a rant to me at all. My bad.

To me, a rant is hostile. And the first online dictionary definition I found of "rant" seems to agree: "To speak or write in an angry or violent manner". You were passionate, perhaps, but not angry or violent. Some of the responses you got ... a few of those were rants.

As for the name "Bing", I agree with your point 100%, if one is going to refer to something, use the right name, especially if one is expecting to be considered a professional.
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Contributr
RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
StephenChapman 7th Oct 2010
@Trep Ford

Ah, yes. Understood and I apologize for jumping the gun and taking your comment the way I did. It made complete sense in the context of a response to other comments. I should have just considered Occam's Razor and rolled with that. happy

Either way, thanks for your feedback. I certainly do appreciate your participation!

-Stephen
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RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
ks2problema 6th Oct 2010
The whole SEO sector seems chockablock with losers, scamsters, and spammers. As an honest web developer who also is a moderator on very popular bulletin board which is a constant target of SEO scamsters, I've come to loathe the very acronym as synonymous with scams, spam, and shams.
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Contributr
RE: SEO Rant: Stop Saying MSN If You Live In 2010
StephenChapman 6th Oct 2010
@ks2problema

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/seo/a-plea-for-the-legitimacy-of-seo-3-simple-truths/107

Have a read and I recomment checking out the first 5-7 posts of this blog. You're certainly not alone in how you feel about SEO, but there are definitely legitimate people out there who do things they way they should be done!
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myclub Updated - 6th Jul

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