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Will .NET join Java on the doom train?

By | June 19, 2011, 9:50pm PDT

Summary: Java’s travails have been well documented. Could .NET also suffer a similar fate?

For many years now, commentators have been giving up on Java or Java Enterprise Edition for dead as a legacy technology or platform. There have been plenty of articles written about its imminent demise. But it’s still around, and by all indications, going strong.

What caught my attention in Niel McAllister’s latest InfoWorld post was the assertion that the .NET Framework is also being sucked into the same alleged abyss into which Java is falling.

The infighting around Java Community Process has been making a lot of headlines as of late, considered by some as another nail in the Java coffin. Java on the wane?  Old news.

But .NET on the wane?  McAllister doesn’t cite direct evidence of this, but says Microsoft’s tendencies to pull back from technologies doesn’t bode well for the framework:

“For a time, Microsoft funded development of IronPython and IronRuby, versions of two popular scripting languages that ran on the [Common Language Runtime]. But Microsoft has since backed away from these dynamic languages to focus on C# and Visual Basic, leaving IronPython and IronRuby developers in a lurch. Now some Microsoft shops are wondering whether other .Net technologies might soon meet the same fate. For several years, Microsoft has been encouraging developers to build UIs using Silverlight, a proprietary Microsoft technology for constructing rich Internet applications….  Yet for months now we’ve heard rumblings that Microsoft may be de-emphasizing Silverlight in favor of Web standards such as HTML5 and JavaScript…. How can enterprise developers be expected to view .Net as a strategic platform if Microsoft can’t even get its own strategy straight?”

McAllister calls the two enterprise frameworks to be “lumbering technologies” in the age of cloud and lightweight scripting. Indeed, both Java EE and .NET came of age more than a decade ago, when there weren’t as many options for securing ready-to-go plumbing that could support Web-friendly applications. So there’s a healthy installed base that’s been around for a few years. But there are now a lot of options for companies and developers. The big question is: how likely is a startup or new enterprise project likely to built on Java or .NET?

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Joe McKendrick is an author, consultant and speaker specializing in trends and developments shaping the technology industry.

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Joe McKendrick

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Joe McKendrick

Joe McKendrick is an author and independent analyst who tracks the impact of information technology on management and markets. Joe is co-author, along with 16 leading industry leaders and thinkers, of the SOA Manifesto, which outlines the values and guiding principles of service orientation. He also speaks frequently on Enterprise 2.0 and SOA topics at industry events and Webcasts, and serves on the program committee for this year's SOA & Cloud Symposium in London. As an independent analyst, he has also authored numerous research reports in partnership with Unisphere Research, a division of Information Today, Inc. for user groups such as SHARE, Oracle Applications Users Group, and International DB2 Users Group. In a previous life, Joe served as director of the Administrative Management Society (AMS), an international professional association dedicated to advancing knowledge within the IT and business management fields. He is a graduate of Temple University.

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RE: Will .NET join Java on the doom train?
zafer12 13th Aug
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0 Votes
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Adding support or even putting emphasis on HTML5+JS has nothing to do with abandoning .NET per se. Microsoft would be dumb to do that, because supporting a truly platform-independent technologies, like pure HTML5+JS would mean you are no longer bound to Windows. Therefore you can be sure that even though HTML5+JS will obviously play a key role in Windows 8, they will do that somehow bound to .NET.

The above of course doesn't hold true for Silverlight, which is a technology directly competing with HTML5+JS, so it makes no sense to support that too if you're putting your eggs into the HTML5+JS basket. But since SL was on the way of going extinct anyway for years now, it would be not much a surprise if MS would actually "kill" it.

Of course they would never announce it to be "dead", just "forget" to supply any more updates to it beyond Windows 8.
0 Votes
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Neither Java EE or .NET is dying in the enterprise. They've killed off all competitors. For startups, .NET or Java EE are the obvious choices for enterprise (today equals webhosted) applications.

Given my Unix heritage I prefer Java EE, but both can do most tasks. Java EE, via the JCP, is more complicated but also offers amazing power. It's ability to run on any OS, zero licensing cost option and superior scalability makes it very hard to beat.

MS IDE is better integrate for the script kiddies for their simple apps.

HTML5 looks to be performing the same API consolidation on the UI. Given it's cross platform support it's the obvious choice (demand is for access from a growing number of devices).
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@Richard Flude Exactly... The startup I work for uses JEE everywhere.
Don't ever fall for the "cross platform" hype again. If Java cannot pull it off on a much stronger footing then don't expect H5 is able to. Fool me once, shame on Java. Fool me twice, well ...
0 Votes
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MS' strange love affair with HTML
P. Douglas Updated - 20th Jun
@LBiege,

Building anything beyond simple apps with HTML / JavaScript, is such a mind numbing and highly inefficient process, it seems highly unlikely that MS will abandon .Net for the aforementioned technologies. Therefore MS appears to want to appeal to the tens of millions of HTML / JavaScript developers out there, to build Windows 8, optimized apps - for which I have to ask the question, "Why bother?" If these guys build apps specifically for Windows 8, they will be forgoing making their apps available on billions of machines. If the try to monetize their apps on Windows, they will be competing against superior apps built with much more capable .Net technology. If they try to build their apps for the web, and optimize it for Windows 8, where would be the Windows 8 optimization advantage when native apps would be so much more competitive than them? Therefore all this fussing over HTML apps on Windows 8 is largely a waste of time and resources - in my opinion.

There are obviously a number of people at MS who are truly enamored by HTML, and I just don't know why. HTML has caused the company so much grief over the years, yet the company still seems to be so in love with it. MS needs to focus on .Net, and allow HTML to go off and be supported by the web community. HTML has never loved MS, and never will. MS really needs to get over it.
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This is sensationalist nonsense
Tim Acheson 19th Jun
Quote the part where MS has favoured HTML over Silverlight. The company has never said any such thing.

We already know that Silverlight and with it .Net will run on Windows 8. Prophets of doom seem incapable of keeping-up with genuine developments in stories like this, and instead focus on popular sources of scaremongering and wild speculation.
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MS is too ingrained in .NET as an administrative platform via PowerShell right now to abandon it. SQL Server and Exchange are now heavily managed this way so it's not just the developers but the admins they'd screw over with themselves in the process.
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Cross platform...
wright_is 20th Jun
With MS moving Windows 8 onto ARM, as well as x86, I think .Net is becoming more relevant.

Probably 75% of my computing is still local and doesn't use the Internet or the Cloud.

Given the lack of connectivity on the road, especially when roaming, where the costs are simply too high to go online for more than a few seconds to retrieve e-mail and then process them locally, local applications with cloud based synchronisation (when a connection is available) still makes more sense.

The same is true for server side back ends. We mainly use Java here, but an MS shop will continue to use .Net and PHP, Ruby etc. shops will continue to use their tools of preference.

The statement about "drawing back," is open ended. Have they blocked the use of Iron... or are they just not actively helping the community develop them any more?

Maybe MS just consider that the Iron... languages are mature enough and they have enough community backing, that the momentum will keep rolling.

Dynamic scripting languages aren't MS's fort?. The two languages in question come from an open background, so it makes sense for them to stay in open community hands. It also lets MS concentrate on their core languages.
@wright_is
.Net has been running on ARM through .Net compact framework for years now. All they need to do is expanding the whole compact framework into full featured .Net framework.

In a way .Net is doing something Java promised to do, which is write once, works everywhere.
0 Votes
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@Samic Mono deployment's not really all that wide spread, and Mono is still fairly buggy... So not really.
0 Votes
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Apples and oranges
Heiner Wolf 20th Jun
Anyone who follwed this "MS abandons WPF/Silverlight for HTML" issue last week noticed, that there was just one video mentioning HTML a bit. Even if MS pushed HTML as front-end technology, then it is still generated by .NET languages. HTML5 would compete with WPF, not with .NET. Apples and oranges. In other words: the author does not understand what he is talking about.
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Agreed
FADS_z 20th Jun
@Heiner Wolf
Joe should say silverlight, not .net in his article.
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@Heiner Wolf
Exactly. Poorly mis-directed article. .NET generates HTML. If anything, Silverlight is in question, not .NET
"Microsoft?s tendencies to pull back from technologies"? I thought the usual complaint was that MS never abandoned legacy technology.
They did abandon their older VB. Anyway, they could get developers to switch at that time. It was a good case of demographics at work. These developers had grown up on Windows (95+ onwards) and were still young enough to switch. Now the very same developers are middle aged leads or managers. Windows itself is middle aged. The new developers are those who have grown up with iPods and iPhones and now Android too. Why would they follow Microsoft? For them, the image of Windows is something that boring middle aged people working in enterprises use to do their boring work. It is because parents buy computers at homes that Windows 7 sells; if kids and youngsters were allowed to buy computers they would all switch to Mac in a jiffy. I am not an Apple fan, but that is the truth. They find both Windows and Linux boring and very middle aged. Remember what we (the PC generation) felt about boring Mainframes? That hen has now come to roost.
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@iRMX

Abandoned VB? No, it evolved. That's like saying they abandoned 16-bit.
0 Votes
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VB6, VBA is history
FADS_z 20th Jun
@jmiller1978
I believe MS is abandoning Access now. 64bit jet is nowhere to find.
0 Votes
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Java's demise
mwbrady68 20th Jun
I think the biggest threat to Java's future is Oracle.

Can't see how Javascript could be used for business application development without creating a mess. Current internal business applications that I've seen that use HTML4/Javascript tend to be very difficult to maintain and no fun to work with. Not sure how HTML5/ changes all of that.

But, that does not mean things won't go the way of sloppy HTML5/Javascripting. The superior product does not always win. OS/2 was arguably a decade ahead of Windows, but Windows 3.X won the contest easily.
0 Votes
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@mwbrady68

JS isn't hard to maintain if done right. The key there is applying the same things we apply to other languages to JS. Use a framework like JQuery, organize your javascript into .js files and not in your HTML. Use only events (no <nclick=blah. Comment, and if you can don't roll your own components. Use the same indentation and commenting standards as the rest of your app. If you guys do these things the JS will be easy to maintain (like ours is).
0 Votes
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I expect to see them used for the next 5 to 10 years.
0 Votes
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I seem to recall...
Jeff Dickey Updated - 20th Jun
@Dr_Zinj ...people saying much the same thing about the headlining growth of COBOL and OS/MVS, back in the day; the early PCs were "immature" and "not likely to be significant", so "proper business computing" could safely take no notice of them. But then, I came into the craft of software development as myriad thousands of mainframe developers were being shown the door; the bean-counters running things then as now saw young people as The Future&tm;, mostly because they were a) cheap and b) inexperienced outside the tech that they were passionate about. "All this has happened before, and all this shall happen again..."
0 Votes
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@Jeff Dickey

The thing is when the rubber meets the road, so-to-speak, a lot of these new interpreted languages don't offer all of the built in features of Java Enterprise. Not everything fits into a Ruby on Rails box... The issue is for very large enterprise applications built in scaling, like clustering, object pooling, and messaging services are must have features.

The fact is JEE and .NET lead in enterprise applications because they continue to provide those features, along with easy clustering. When I need my application to handle more requests, all I have to do is fire up another JBoss server. Furthermore, not every application fits into the web-paradigm. Ruby is very well suited for stateless web applications, but not everything is that and it doesn't scale that well as a result. Twitter is currently working to get rid of RoR for many of its features... Why? The fail-whale.
0 Votes
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JEE is not dead or legacy... Several of my clients still use it and are asking for new applications in Java. If Java and .NET enterprise apps were dying, what pray-tell would be there to replace them in the enterprise? Nothing.

The fundamental thing that differentiates JEE and .NET are the enterprise features, like integrated message queues, stateless and stateful session beans, almost effortless object pooling, and a system designed to run clustered from the ground up. When I need to add more power to my JBoss application, all I have to do is fire up another node and add it to my JBoss cluster, that's why it's such a compelling technology, and has been for so long. When I want different components in my application to connect to my database server through separate pools, all I have to do is write a little bit of XML, and it works.

HTML5 and Javascript won't replace these things either, if anything they will cause further adoption. Something has to do all of that backend processing for the webapps we all know and love... If you want to buy something in an eCommerce store or save high scores from some game about raising chickens, guess what? HTML5 isn't your backend...
0 Votes
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jmiller

Microsoft took Access of the program developers list some 12 or 13 years ago. That is when it became a "personal use database". The main function of Access now is for writing custom reports and interfaces for SQL setups where all updating is via triggers and procedures.
1. Give thanks that Microsoft helped contribute the dynamic languages like IronRuby and IronPython.
2. Handing those languages over to apache is staying focused on compiled language.
3. F# is a game changer. This functional language will co-exist with C#
4. MVC platform with Nuget and all the goodness of vs 2010 , nobody can truly compete.
5. Java is history, it is in demand still as it has been around a long time. Heck, Cobol is still used.
6. .NET innovates .. Java is slow to change. Linq and Lamba expressions. Automatic properties, Generics, the list goes on.
7. I have programmed in Java and many dynamic languages, authors who write this nonsense are not developers and don't understand languages in the enterprise.
0 Votes
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@tazmanrising

3. Meh. I don't see how F# is a game changer, it's just another language in the .NET world. Some people like it, I don't like the syntax.
4. There have been java MVC frameworks for years and years... Spring, Struts, JSF to name a few of the many.
5. Then why are many of my clients demanding Java applications still?
6. Linq is not innovation... That's Microsoft catching up to JPA.
7. Agree completely.
0 Votes
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@snoop0x7b

3. F# is functional , and cutting edge companies are using it. a. watch the inventor of C#'s speech on it b. buy a book on it and actually implement it along with c# c. Do a dice or monster or google search and see the companies hiring that are using it. F# is now a part of vs 2010, and J# was dropped.
4. asp.net mvc is changing everything. my phone doesn't stop ringing with the demand for mvc. Trends show Ruby on the decline (even though it is mvc) Microsoft maybe late to the game, but it is mvc fully supported and very fast development. Web forms are awful and real programmers who use OOP and design patterns are excited about MVC . Java MVC... hmmm, so much fun ... NOT I have used struts, spring mvc and other java mvc open source projects.... In fact, Groovy on Grails I was doing at a company as they saw the potential.... In the Groovy on Grails book I recall the author who was a Java guru saying that java takes forever to do anything and RoR and .NET are killing them thus groovy on grails came about.
0 Votes
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@tazmanrising

5. Java came around in 1995 , thus it built up steam. There are many Microsoft haters, there are companies, government agencies that only allow java as they are on a web platform that is NOT windows , thus duh..... the demand will still be there. As a Senior .NET contractor I never meet .NET developers saying "I want to learn / do Java..... Instead I frequently run into Java developers at companies saying "I want to learn .NET"
6. Linq is included into the language and compiler, is so blows away the several Java "equivalents" Java is playing catch up .... Hello "Closures" .... It is such a fact that Java is so behind, use google
0 Votes
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@snoop0x7b

You call this community?
In the Java camp, the Java Community Process (JCP) has approved Java SE 7, the first major revision to the core platform in five years. For some developers, the vote came not a moment too soon. Still others say the new version doesn't go far enough to bring Java up to date with modern language features. Enjoy Java
0 Votes
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@snoop0x7b
I agree with you on all points except #6. Linq is really innovative especially when parsing data and operating on collections
0 Votes
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Silverlight is not gone
tazmanrising 20th Jun
The guy saying Silverlight is not the answer was Bob Muglia, Microsoft?s SVP of the Server and Tools Business, He was FIRED ( he quit ... but i bet he was fired) happy silverlight is still doing well. If someone learned sliverlight, there are plenty of jobs asking for it.
"For many years now, commentators have been giving up on Java or Java Enterprise Edition for dead as a legacy technology or platform".
Are these the same guys who wrote obituaries for Apple during the 1990s?
One thing that I've learned over the years - commentators love writing premature obituaries and they don't give a hoot how often they get it wrong - which is most of the time. I expect tea-leaf readers have better success.
None of them will win, neighter Java, nor .Net in HTML world. Php is gaining speed in this area. I think in coming next years we will see more script based languages, which we don't think more about deployment, scalability and power. Also assuming in the future, not so more than 10 years, we will meet more lexical programming languages for every environment (Mobile, Web, desktop and home).
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RE: Will .NET join Java on the doom train?
Gabrielle Rafael 21st Jun
Java on the doomtrain? here at Accenture, java is more than alive.
0 Votes
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RE: Will .NET join Java on the doom train?
Gabrielle Rafael 21st Jun
Java on the doom train? Here at Accenture, java is more than alive, it's kickin.
0 Votes
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I wish .NET would go away
Greenknight_z 22nd Jun
.NET is a huge pain for those on old hardware, it's a giant bloatware mess. Massive patches are frequently required to plug its gaping security holes. I'd be very happy if it just disappeared.
site:www.gamepro.com/article/reviews games

Wow! I wasn't expecting a 5-star review. I would of picked this up regardless of the review because I loved the original, but it is a nice surpris

metin2 MMO games
metin2 pvp serverler
metin2 pvp serverler kurma
gm komutlar?
1299 gm komutlari
gm komutlari knight
mt2 pvp serverler kurma

mt2 giris
metin2 hile
metin2 hileler
mt2 kaydol
metin2 kaydol
metin2 resim
metin2 resimleri
mt2 resimleri


Wow! I wasn't expecting a 5-star review. I would of picked this up regardless of the review because I loved the original, but it is a nice surpris
mt2 MMO games
pvp serverler
pvp serverlar
mt2 hileler
mt2 hile
metin2 hileleri

metin2 at gorevleri
metin2 gorevler
metin2 itemleri

pvp serverlar


metin2 pvp
pvp server
knight gm kodlari



yonja
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twitter turkce
twitter giris
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imvu
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