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Topic: Software Development

XML on the wane? Say it isn't so, Jack

Summary: Is the 'X' in Ajax (Asynchronous JavaScript and XML) fading?

Joe McKendrick

By for Service Oriented |

Jack Vaughan has got things all abuzz with a recent post that ponders whether XML's best days are behind it.

Is the 'X' in Ajax (Asynchronous JavaScript and XML) fading?

With the growing popularity of Rich Internet Applications an enterprise mashups, it's conceivable that we may see less and less XML, Jack speculates. "Like Pick or Fortran or other once-popular languages, it is conceivable that XML’s use will at some point decline."

For example, he quotes Yahoo Architect and JSON originator Doug Crockford, the original developer of  JSON (JavaScript Object Notation), who says the protocol "was a reaction to complexity arising around XML. Such complexity did not make sense in simple Web applications."

Many applications written in Ajax (Asynchronous JavaScript And XML) "never go near XML," Jack adds. As he puts it: "The 'X' in Ajax is fading. Some would say Ajax and XML have forked. At the same time, those simple Web apps are growing in complexity."

I don't know if XML would ever go the way of Fortan or Pick, since these are programming languages, and XML is a meta language used in conjunction with programming languages. XML is at the foundation of many integration efforts, Web services, and SOA projects. We finally have something that's bringing together all the world's systems and data. I have a feeling there will be lots of XML around in the years to come.  But, as Jack reminds us, nothing is invincible -- not even mighty XML.

Topics: Software Development, Browser

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14 comments
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  • Ignorance is not bliss

    "I don?t know if XML would ever go the way of Fortan or Pick"

    1. Fortran or to us old people, FORTRAN.

    2. Pick. See http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/u2/ Not dead.
    davebarnes
    Reply Vote

  • RE: XML on the wane? Say it isn't so, Jack

    Since when has XML ever had a big part in ajax? It's been a controversy since ajax was named because most people have never actually used XML in their ajax.
    cfischer83@...
    Reply Vote

  • FORTRAN WATFIV sigh...........

    One of the first languages I learned, loved, loathed, and got paid for was FOTRAN WATFIV. Somedays I miss
    it, usually the feeling passes very rapidly.


    jheman
    Reply Vote

    • For 10 years...

      I coded in a language called Easytrieve. Anyone ever use, or even hear of it?
      mgp3
      Reply Vote

  • It can be complex.

    It can be complex to implement an XML parser. And it
    can be complex to use an XML API.

    I can't find a single API where I can just hand it raw
    text (with NO setup, NO extra commands, NO creation of
    extra objects) and get a parsed, easy-to-navigate tree
    back, or an API where I can hand it a parsed tree and
    get the raw text back.

    They always seem to make it more complex than
    needed,asking for URIs, involving some extra setup
    steps, using strange "stream" systems or some strange
    thing.

    Bah. Ain't worth it.
    CobraA1
    Reply Vote

  • I would say it ain't so

    I think we must look at this from a different angle. XML is way waaay more widespread than only as part of Ajax. As you said it yourself, it is not exactly a programming language. XML is not only for data exchange among applications or servers/clients. It is a way of representing data in a structured and yet potentially very dynamic way. Configuration files, external objects/data, serialized elements and a lot more are done with XML in varied spectrum of softwares, along with possibly every single programming language/environment in active use nowadays.
    JSON seems to be effective and simple to simple stuff, Google Protocol Buffers too. Too be honest I don't know much about either but I don't think they can replace XML yet when things get really complex.

    So, Ajax might be dying (I myself "was moved on" from it since a couple years ago), but XML is a force in its on right.
    cameigons
    Reply Vote

  • RE: XML on the wane? Say it isn't so, Jack

    I don't know all the details about JSON but one thing is for sure: if it does not offer some technology equivalent to an XML Schema, it is going to be hard to build a data representation layer supporting natural interoperability in large SOA projects.

    Jacques Ledoux
    jcq@...
    Reply Vote

  • RE: XML on the wane? Say it isn't so, Jack

    ?was a reaction to complexity arising around XML. Such complexity did not make sense in simple Web applications.?

    Well, why then bother with objects either? I guess the opposite might me true as well. If not simple web applications, then use XML :)
    aaaa123354
    Reply Vote

  • RE: XML on the wane? Say it isn't so, Jack

    if(!isSimpleWebApplication)
    {
    blnResult = isUsingXML();
    }
    aaaa123354
    Reply Vote

  • RE: XML on the wane? Say it isn't so, Jack

    As Cameigons says, XML is not a language, it's a data exchange format.

    XML is designed to be accessed through a Document Object Model (DOM) which is also not a language, it's an API. (Any language will do)

    XML was designed to be used as a means of sharing human readable data using commonly available tools, a simplification SGML, which had you writing parsers. The tools are there, and they are mature.

    What I hope you meant to write about was that XML is not working in areas that it was not designed to work, i.e. as a language, good, it isn't one. It isn't a database either, another common misconception.

    As a common data format it rocks and will continue to do so in the areas where it is not misunderstood and abused.
    Tsingi
    Reply Vote

  • RE: XML on the wane? Say it isn't so, Jack

    Oh, and btw, XML is just a protocol for data exchange, it is not an API, there are APIs and tools that hide all of the complexities of defining, serializing and deserializing objects ad making the calls. The web applications start to look more and more like a regular desktop application, actually the WPF doesn't make a big differece either.

    So JSON is more for people who like to hand code HTML :)
    aaaa123354
    Reply Vote

  • RE: XML on the wane? Say it isn't so, Jack

    For their own communications through the web, research mathematicians are more and more turning to MathML as web page markup language. And what does MathML rely on? You guessed it: XML. So, at least for research mathematicians, XML isn't vanishing any time soon, at all.
    fejlinton
    Reply Vote

  • RE: XML on the wane? Say it isn't so, Jack

    Remember, there's XML and there's XML. Some folks use it as a transport envelope for messages/data. Some folks use it for document markup.

    While I can't speak to the former use, I can assure you that as a document format XML will dominate and that dominance is only beginning.

    Why? Office 10 formats are XML. Adobe's new formats are XML. Open Office formats are XML.

    In SOA-land, XML may be on the downturn. In document format-land it's taking off.
    davekellogg
    Reply Vote

  • RE: XML on the wane? Say it isn't so, Jack

    I don't see it happening anytime soon, like many who don't hand code <a href="http://www.pervasiveintegration.com/data_connectors/data_adapters/Pages/xml_integration.aspx">XML</a>. I use software that builds it for me mostly I have become lazy in my coding and web applications building, but I can always go back to basics if I need to.
    Charlie630
    Reply Vote
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