Time to abandon Gmail?

Moderated by Jason Hiner | November 11, 2013 -- 07:00 GMT (23:00 PST)

Summary: Last year Gmail passed Hotmail to become the world's most popular email service. But that was then.

David Braue

David Braue

Yes

or

No

Ken Hess

Ken Hess

Best Argument: No

34%
66%

Audience Favored: No (66%)

The Rebuttal

  • Great Debate Moderator

    Welcome back

    It's time for this week's Great Debate. Are you ready?


    Posted by Jason Hiner

    All set

    I'm anxious to get started.

    David Braue

    I am for Yes

    Ready here

    Let's go.

    Ken Hess

    I am for No

  • Great Debate Moderator

    Why is Gmail No. 1?

    Let's recap. Last year Gmail passed Hotmail to become the world's most popular email service. What were the factors that have made Gmail so popular?

    Posted by Jason Hiner

    Unlimited access

    ​Gmail does have its charms – in particular, its excellent spam filtering, its fast searching even through old messages, its snappy and interactive interface, and its ability to manage multiple email accounts within a custom domain name.

    And yet I doubt any of these were of value to what would have to be the largest group of Gmail users: spammers. They love how easy it is to set up new Gmail accounts; I know this because they write me using @gmail.com addresses all the time. If you were to only count Gmail users with pulses, I bet you’d have a far smaller number. But it doesn’t serve Google’s advertising rates sheet to talk about actual users with pulses.

    David Braue

    I am for Yes

    Let me count the ways

    Gmail offers a lot of advanced features for free that Hotmail and other free services don't. Email forwarding, aliasing, vacation responder, multiple email addresses from a single account, integrated calendaring, Google Docs, Google Drive, advanced Inbox rules, advanced SMTP setup, IMAP, labels, an advanced SPAM filter, flagging, and Chrome-specific plugins that make the Gmail experience even better.

    For example, with the Rapportive plugin, I can actually see the person who's emailed me and see his or her latest social media posts. Gmail is extremely easy to use and available on all platforms as an app or as a browser-based email client in Chrome.

    Ken Hess

    I am for No

  • Great Debate Moderator

    Why does Gmail beat Hotmail and Yahoo mail

    Hotmail and Yahoo Mail were the services that lost out at Gmail's expense. What was it that cost them users?

    Posted by Jason Hiner

    It's back to basics

    Hotmail had fewer features and an antiquated interface that is still struggling to catch up. Yahoo was a business in turmoil and failed to offer a fresh and useful interface for years; its latest effort has been a disaster.

    Neither one of them had Google’s underlying strengths in searching and organizing messages, among the most important things any email user needs. Google also gave Gmail a leg up by integrating it with Docs, Maps, Picasa, Google+ and its myriad other services; the end result has been a broad and deep service offering – suitable for businesses as well as consumers – that Microsoft is only now matching and Yahoo never will.

    David Braue

    I am for Yes

    More modern

    I have both a Hotmail and a Yahoo Mail account and Gmail is more "modern." I don't have to be stuck with a gmail.com address. I use my own domain address there: kenhess.com. I also have three or four other aliases for other websites that I own. And when someone sends me an email to one of those aliases, when I respond, the email originates from the alias automatically.

    Other free services such as Hotmail and Yahoo Mail aren't as professional. When someone sends me an email using a hotmail.com address, I assume it's SPAM. Same goes for a Yahoo Mail address. Gmail has a higher level of trust and professionalism, although, to be honest, it's so easy to use your own domain that I'm starting to suspect gmail.com addresses as SPAM too.

    Ken Hess

    I am for No

  • Great Debate Moderator

    ISP losses

    The other big loser in the mail game is the ISPs, as more and more users migrate away from traditional ISPs mailboxes to these free webmail. Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

    Posted by Jason Hiner

    Little competition

    Standardizing on a well-known and well-understood webmail platform may prove irresistible to users, but ISPs offer benefits that Gmail, Hotmail and Yahoo will never match. For example, they offer in-country storage of messages. This is a big deal for many businesses in places like Australia, where new privacy laws will kick in next March and the data sovereignty issues  of cloud-hosted email makes many nervous.

    ISPs also offer better support for standards like Microsoft Exchange, won’t mine your email to make money selling ads, and offer a phone number to call if something goes horribly wrong. If Gmail and its ilk are the Twinkies of Web mail – delicious as long as you don’t think about how unhealthy they are – ISP-hosted email is the crème brulee.

    David Braue

    I am for Yes

    Reliability

    ISPs are historically bad at supporting email and email has become a critical function. Using myself as an example here, if I lose access to email, I'm basically down and can't be fully productive. Email is the new printing. It is essential to daily business continuity and ISPs unfortunately just don't have the expertise needed to keep an email service alive and healthy long-term.

    And ISPs see email as an annoyance. For the $5 per month, or whatever they charge, it isn't worth the hassle to deal with everyone calling for support. It's a service that's never paid for itself. I'm sure the ISPs are happy that their users use Gmail and other free services. So, it's a win-win situation for ISPs and users.

    Ken Hess

    I am for No

  • Great Debate Moderator

    Recommendations

    Do you recommend your family and friends use webmail rather than ISP mailboxes? Why or why not, and what justifications do you give?

    Posted by Jason Hiner

    Makes me feel guilty

    I am as guilty of recommending webmail services as the next guy, if only because my family members are too technology-illiterate to even contemplate using ISP services and friends tend to just want something easy to use. Let’s face it: right or wrong, most people can’t be bothered learning the difference between POP3 and IMAP. But that doesn’t make it right: I know that each signup is feeding Google new content for its all-seeing, privacy-busting analysis engine. I can only hope they aren’t writing anything too salacious, to fly under the NSA’s radar.

    David Braue

    I am for Yes

    Yes!

    Yes, I do recommend it. I just setup a friend of mine with webmail and got him away from AOL's email. He now has a professional email address on Gmail that costs him nothing. He already had the domain and now he gets his email at that domain, hosted by Gmail.

    The justifications are all the ones I've given so far. Gmail has it all and has it at no charge. No hassle, very good uptimes, and available on all platforms are huge selling points.

    Ken Hess

    I am for No

  • Great Debate Moderator

    Backlash

    Do you believe there is a potential backlash happening against Gmail, as ZDNet's Ed Bott and others have asserted recently?

    Posted by Jason Hiner

    Little privacy

    With Microsoft and Yahoo making new plays for email business and Gmail gaining notoriety for its egregious abuse of user privacy, there’s no question that many users are deciding that it’s time to consider alternatives. Who can blame them? Edward Snowden’s revelations about PRISM have made privacy a top-tier issue this year, and Google’s known reliance on compromising that privacy – along with its relatively closed design, poor Exchange support, decision to charge for premium features that were once free, difficult user interface, and sporadic outages  – are giving people reasons to consider alternatives such as Outlook.com.

    David Braue

    I am for Yes

    Gmail addiction

    I think such backlashes attract page views for media types. And I think secretly, they'll still use Gmail, when no one's looking. Personally, I can't wean myself off of Gmail. I've used it since you had to have an invitation to use it in 2003 or 2004. Ten years with the same email provider says something--especially when I could easily host my own email services as I've done in the past. I can't even compete with Gmail. It's that good.

    I've tried to wean myself off of it because of some of the issues that some have mentioned. In fact, I wrote Google several years ago and asked if they would implement folders. Tags seemed odd to me. These days, it doesn't bother me.

    Ken Hess

    I am for No

  • Great Debate Moderator

    OS X issues

    Do you think the recent compatibility issues with OS X Mavericks will take a long-term toll on Gmail?

    Posted by Jason Hiner

    Google's way

    Given Mavericks’ relatively low market share at this point, a few patchable problems  are hardly going to kill Gmail stone-dead. However, it does highlight the tightrope act that Gmail is perpetuating: despite years committed to making email a standards-based and secure method for exchanging methods, Apple’s Gmail problems show that Apple isn’t the only one forcing developers to do things Google’s way.

    David Braue

    I am for Yes

    No issues

    Funny you should ask. I'm using it on OS X Mavericks as I type this. No issues.

    So, I'm not sure what compatibility issues others have reported but I haven't seen them yet and I'm a very heavy user. I have Chrome open all day long (It's the only browser I use) with an ever-present Gmail tab and several others while I research information for articles and posts.

    Never an issue. I didn't even realize there were any issues with Mavericks and Gmail.

    Ken Hess

    I am for No

  • Great Debate Moderator

    Togetherness

    When you look at Gmail today, what's keeping users on the service and what's keeps new users signing up?

    Posted by Jason Hiner

    So many messages

    Inertia is a powerful force, and many Gmail users probably stay with the service because they have so many messages stored in the system that they can’t contemplate leaving. However, it’s not always that difficult to leave, particularly if you’re technical enough to understand and change how email is routed.

    Others are still joining Gmail because it has enough of a brand name to have become synonymous with the word ‘webmail’ in many users’ minds. They may not know, or may not care, about its egregious privacy abuses or be happy to volunteer their personal information as payment for the inarguable convenience of Gmail. Of course, people willingly watch ‘Big Brother’ too. That doesn’t mean it’s good for them.

    David Braue

    I am for Yes

    No problems

    As I've stated, it's the service. I've never had a problem with Gmail in the ten-ish years that I've used it. That's a pretty darn good track record--for me and for Gmail.

    What keeps people signing up is that they know that Google is an excellent company that provides personal and business services. It's easy to use, free, and very feature rich. That and a lot of people don't want to use Microsoft services. There's a lot of anti-Microsoft sentiment out there, there's a lot of anti-Google sentiment too and I think that users bounce between them. There's not much loyalty out there for these services. People will change for the smallest of issues.

    Ken Hess

    I am for No

  • Great Debate Moderator

    Roadblocks

    What are the biggest drawbacks to Gmail?

    Posted by Jason Hiner

    More issues than privacy

    It’s easy to point to its harvesting of personal information, which it uses to sell ads that are constantly waved in front of your face, as the worst problem with Gmail. Some people may even like that they get personalized, targeted ads – although they might like them less if they thought about how those ads were targeted.

    Yet there is much more to dislike about Gmail. Its interface is unlike any other mail program, which is good for some people but bad for people who aren’t used to conversation views, organizing messages using tags, and the like. It’s hard to get your messages out of Gmail if you want them, and Google is regularly changing the interface to suit its changing business – even to the point where it’s too much. Google’s latest “innovation”, for example, has put ads right there above your personal email messages.

    David Braue

    I am for Yes

    Folders

    I haven't found any significant ones, obviously, but if I had to pinpoint one that I've had, is folders. I've learned to live with tags but I think people would like to have folders. A lot of people see that as a shortcoming and there's really no reason why Google couldn't implement them. You could keep them on your Google Drive so that they'd be available everywhere you are.

    Ken Hess

    I am for No

  • Great Debate Moderator

    Controversies

    Do the controversies of PRISM, Lavabit, and the Edward Snowdon revelations make a case against webmail in general and Gmail specifically?

    Posted by Jason Hiner

    Easy target

    Absolutely. More than anything else, the PRISM revelations have proven that true privacy is harder than ever to come by online. We may have unconsciously accepted this was the case when signing up for Gmail, but there is no question that our personal information has become an important commodity for the online giants. The backlash against Lavabit further reinforces the vulnerability of online webmail services – and shows just how tenuous they really are. There are so many ways to get the same benefits that Gmail offers, through hosted and manageable email services, that this year’s privacy relevations will have been the last straw for many users of Gmail and other services.

    David Braue

    I am for Yes

    No such thing as anonymity

    No, I don't think so. I think you have to assume that someone can look or is looking at your data for whatever reason. Certainly you should assume that for your company email. There's no such thing as anonymity and you shouldn't expect it. Google and other service providers have to comply with law enforcement.

    I know that a lot of people cry foul at that and paranoia sells newspapers and attracts pageviews but the reality is that there's no such thing as privacy or anonymity. In my opinion, you should never assume anonymity and you should assume that someone can hack into whatever it is you use, so make backups or have an alternative ready to use.

    Ken Hess

    I am for No

  • Great Debate Moderator

    Is it time to abandon Gmail?

    When you take all of the factors in balance, what is your conclusion about whether it's time to abandon Gmail or not?

    Posted by Jason Hiner

    Yes. Give Gmail the flick

    There is no question that Gmail and its ilk offer a high level of convenience and an easy way of getting email onto desktop, smartphone and tablet devices. It also offers undeniably valuable features – although more alternatives are now available, from more cloud providers than ever before.

    Still, it is now clearer than ever just how extensive are the compromises that they require. Users that don’t care about their privacy won’t care either way and will continue buying into Google’s efforts to monetize their entire personal identity – but the growing number of people that want to claw back their own identities will be entirely justified in giving Gmail the flick. It’s like quitting smoking: it may seem unthinkably difficult at first, but once you’ve done it you will never look back.

    David Braue

    I am for Yes

    No. Find something better

    If you can find something better to use, then go for it. I haven't. When I do, I might abandon it. But it might take another ten years to find that magical email service. Gmail does everything for me that I need. There's no reason to abandon a service that has worked flawlessly for ten years and gives me everything for free. 

    Ken Hess

    I am for No

  • Great Debate Moderator

    Thanks everybody

    I hope you enjoyed this week's Great Debate. Our debaters did a great job and I hope that you're looking forward to see their closing arguments on Wednesday. My final verdict will be posted on Thursday. In the meantime, please read the comments and vote for the best argument. Until next week...

    Posted by Jason Hiner

Talkback

159 comments
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  • Outlook beats Gmail in Speed,UI..

    Gmail was good about 2 years back but it became mess because of clunky UI and later google wanted everyone to use that G+ crap and that made Gmail so bad and i switched to Windows Live mail about 2 years back, now outlook dot com is way better.
    Sugadevan
    Reply 65 Votes I'm for Yes
    • I have 108,011 emails and am using 48% of my free capacity. (since 2005)

      Many emails have 8 MB movie attachments.

      I use hundreds of filters and labels to automate my email.

      My inbox gets about 30 emails a day, the rest are technical and promotional items that essentially have their own dedicated inboxes.

      I can delete all my emails with one simple filter, or mark every email as read with one simple filter. (this is significant because settings allow labels to be hidden unless there is a new, unread email, then the label appears in the list on the main page.)

      Nothing can be more streamlined or easier to use than Gmail. I can find anything, even from 6 years ago with the search tool.

      Gmail takes full advantage of the power and security of Linux. And I've been using Linux for 13 years.
      Joe.Smetona
      Reply 58 Votes I'm Undecided
      • Good for you

        You are giving a lot of personnal information to Google. You are making them very rich.
        gbouchard99@...
        Reply 27 Votes I'm Undecided
        • How dare they!

          You get a service. A GREAT service! All they do to pay for it is scan words with a bot and present target ads. Oh my. Google is so demanding. How dare they! Then Google even scans my mail for things like shipping notifications and has the nerve to push that info to Google Now on my phone telling a package was shipped or that a package was delivered. The nerve of Google to tell me something before I ASK FOR IT!
          mill3000@...
          Reply 48 Votes I'm Undecided
        • and you think

          you're not giving any personal information to Microsoft when using outlook.com? I would say, it's called naivety...
          BTW, how much personal information does Google have on me if I use gmail via IMAP/SMTP with GNUS and mutt encrypting every email message with asymmetric gpg/pgp by means of a 2048R key?
          eulampius
          Reply 22 Votes I'm Undecided
          • Microsoft, at least, gives you the opportunity to OPT-IN to ...

            ... sharing your information with them, AND they only use that information to market their own products to you. Google, on the other had will sell your personal information TO ANYONE who wants to pay Google for that information about you. Whether they are selling that information to the NSA or to the "Russian Mafia" or to Islamic Terrorists, you will never know.
            M Wagner
            Reply 4 Votes I'm Undecided
          • Nonsense

            That's complete garbage. Provide a link to a credible source to support these false claims. Google uses the information to provide ads but they do not sell your personal information. That would be a disaster for them.
            zd@...
            Reply 12 Votes I'm Undecided
        • Therefore???

          Therefore???
          yaakovaryeh
          Reply 6 Votes I'm Undecided
        • ...makes perfect sense

          Yes, gbouch..., the perfect business Model. I get a fantastic service for free, they get paid by advertising, the "buyer" on the ads gets free research, and your personal data is just as public as ANYWHERE else. What is your point?
          ChoMlo
          Reply 13 Votes I'm Undecided
        • That's OK by me

          As long as they give me what they contracted to do I don't care if they scan for selling opportunities. Afterall, I am a business woman and would do the same. If I don't want them to know I don't use Google.
          fredsgirl1
          Reply 6 Votes I'm Undecided