S. Korea court finds cure for Apple-Samsung patent war: Ban both

S. Korea court finds cure for Apple-Samsung patent war: Ban both

Summary: The big takeaway here is not the ruling as much as it is an avenue to end the patent madness.

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TOPICS: Patents, Apple, Legal, Samsung
38

A South Korean court may have found a novel way to nix the endless Apple and Samsung patent sniping: Ban sales of smartphones and tablets from both companies.

Our Kevin Kwang in Singapore rounded up the basics via a bevy of reports (Bloomberg, Yonhap, WSJ). The Seoul Central District Court found that Apple's iPhone violated two Samsung patents. Samsung violated one Apple patent. The sales bans don't cover the latest products from Samsung and Apple.

Apple reportedly has to stop selling the iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4 and the first and second iPads in South Korea. Samsung needs to stop selling 12 products---Galaxy S, Galaxy S II and Galaxy Tab.

Even assuming home court advantage for Samsung, the ruling is notable given the patent battles going on with Apple vs. Samsung in the U.S. and Australia.

The big takeaway here is not the ruling as much as it is an avenue to end the patent madness. If both parties suffer somehow it's likely that the patent lawsuits will at least slow down. Both Apple and Samsung are going for the mutually assured patent destruction route. Be careful what you ask for.

Topics: Patents, Apple, Legal, Samsung

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38 comments
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  • This is a crushing defeat for Apple's ZDNet thugs

    We keep hearing about how "obvious" it is that Samsung slavishly copied Apple.

    A real court with a real judge has ruled that it is far more nuanced than this.
    toddbottom3
    • Not at all

      I find the ruling and the decision to ban products from both companies quite fair - I admit I had my doubts that Apple was infringing but since it was proven in a court of law that they did then they should pay the penalty. Just as Samsung is going to have to pay a similar penalty for their now proven infringement of Apple's IP.

      For YOU Toddy old boy this is some sort of quasi-religious war with your paranoid hatred of all things Apple... for me this is a confirmation that Samsung was indeed copying Apple despite all of you iHaters claiming otherwise.
      athynz
      • I'm totally comfortable admitting this

        Apple and Samsung have both copied off each other equally. That is what the judge said and that is what has just been confirmed for you. Since this ISN'T a religious war for me and I don't have a paranoid hatred of all things Apple (I own an iPhone 4: best phone I've ever owned and I own an iPad 2: best tablet I've ever owned) then it doesn't bother me at all to see the courts come to this conclusion.

        Actually, I take that back. Apple copied twice as much from Samsung:
        "Apple's iPhone violated two Samsung patents. Samsung violated one Apple patent"

        So actually, Apple is twice the slavish copier when compared to Samsung. If that bothers you, maybe you should do a bit of a self-examination to see if this is a quasi-religious war with your parandoid hatred of all things not Apple.
        toddbottom3
        • According to A FOSS PATENTS opinion written by Florian Mueller, the

          patents that Apple was ruled to infringe upon were FRAND in nature.

          His opinion (and I state for the record, this is his opinion) casts a very dim light upon the nature for this Korean ruling.

          Quote: "A couple of court decisions announced in Seoul, South Korea, this morning indicate that South Korea has decided to become a rogue state in connection with standard-essential patents, essentially telling foreign companies that in order to sell their technology products to the country's 50-million population, they must bow to extortion by Samsung and LG."

          If that is the case, Todd, I will not equate this judicial ruling with a fair and equitable decision that Larry Dignan believes is the case.

          Perhaps Larry believes in extortion as a fair trade practice between nations.
          kenosha77a
          • But Larry and I aren't the only ones

            "I will not equate this judicial ruling with a fair and equitable decision that Larry Dignan believes is the case."

            Larry and I aren't the only ones who think this is a fair ruling. A real judge in a real court of law, after hearing real lawyers representing both companies, has examined the evidence and deemed this to be the legal and correct ruling. Ever played any card games that use trump cards? The judge presiding over the case trumps you and your blogger friend.

            I feel that every ruling Apple has ever won is unfair. On a scale of 1-100, how much does that matter?
            toddbottom3
          • Bullies in school usually trump fair and equitable modes of

            behavior as well. That doesn't mean they were right. Even the US Supreme court has rescinded a few of there verdicts. Apparently, on their second attempt, the US Supreme court realized that slavery was a bad thing after all.

            Just as a word of caution, Todd, but there are such things as appellate courts of law that have, in the past, over ruled one judge's opinion from time to time.
            kenosha77a
          • Interesting use of the word: bully

            Considering that Apple is so much richer than Samsung, your use of the word "bully" is extremely appropriate.

            "Just as a word of caution, Todd, but there are such things as appellate courts of law that have, in the past, over ruled one judge's opinion from time to time."

            Uh oh, you might want to be careful of that one. One of the favorite arguments of the Apple fanboi is that "Apple is right, it was proven in a court of law." If you start opening up the possibility that courts of law issue "incorrect" verdicts, you utterly destroy that entire line of argument.

            Tell you what, if the US court decides to rule for Apple, will you join me in responding to every single person who writes
            "SEE I TOLD YOU APPLE WAS RIGHT AND THAT SAMSUNG SLAVISHLY COPIED THEM"

            with

            "Now now, just because a judge issued this ruling doesn't mean that Apple was right and it doesn't mean that Samsung slavishly copied Apple. It is just a ruling from an imperfect court system. Maybe Samsung copied Apple, maybe Samsung didn't copy Apple, this ruling doesn't offer us any guidance either way."

            Well, will you?
            toddbottom3
          • I responded to your comment in the other related blog.

            For the record, I will hold off on saying who was "right" or "wrong" or "infringed upon" or not until the appeal process is over. Fair enough?
            kenosha77a
          • You believe that Florian Guy really?

            It's been report over and over again. The FRAND issue is in dispute because Apple didn't properly follow the license terms. The terms was 2.x% per device and it was effective for all licensees. Apple basically they think the FRAND was too expensive so they *never* *ever* paid for the FRAND terms, anywhere in the world.

            In this case, the Korean court found Apple guilty for not trying hard enough to license the FRAND. The judge ruled based on Samsung provided the details regard licenses with other companies on same FRAND showing they are getting paid more than apple. By not negotiating FRAND the count found that Apple undervalued of FRAND patents. This gave the judge an impression that Apple didn't give enough efforts. If Apple matched the price with other companies then Samsung would've guilt of not provide FRAND.

            Country also play a role of the FRAND license dispute as well since license always about where being made and sold. In US cases, Samsung argue that the Intel chip was designed in Germany and sold in China so that FRAND transaction "shortcut" Samsung FRAND terms in America. In another word, Samsung argue that Apple went to grey market to purchase chips that included Samsung IP without paying Samsung's FRAND.

            Mind you all that FRAND issue because Apple used Intel baseband chips. The newer iDevice use Qualcomm with different FRAND license terms so they have *yet* to raise FRAND issues.

            No offense but prove me wrong but I have a very strong feeling that you're such a machead you probably wouldn't care about the details.
            Samic
          • Good comments. And I appreciated them because they were well

            thought out and presented.

            Speaking of Macheads, you could probably say that for the last eight years I have invested heavily in the Apple consumer product ecosystem. And, although I rarely tell my "life story" online, tonight I'll break that habit for you - since you asked.

            In my 59 years that I have been alive, being a "Mac Head" was not always a personal association for me. (Although my very first bank loan for 3,000 dollars went to purchase my first home PC system - an Apple II+, dual floppy drives, a joy stick, a green phosphor dot monitor and a NEC dot matrix printer which allowed me to learn Apple Pascal, Basic and Apple Fortran (which really didn't work) along with the standard word processor and really primitive spreadsheets.)

            As an manufacturing automotive engineer for twenty three years (and a American automotive Corporation employee for 33 years), I used and invested heavily in the Microsoft Windows hardware platform and software. And that relationship lasted until about eight years ago. My knowledge and use of the Windows hardware and software ecosystem aided my career and introduced me to various great friends.

            However, my true "Fanboy Heart and Allegiance", if you will, will always belong to the Commodore Amiga platform and software. The Amiga hardware and software far surpassed any consumer Apple or Microsoft platform of that era, IMO. I even learned (albeit very slowly, DOS based Word Perfect, Lotus 123 and dBase III on my Amiga via the transformer hardware/software emulator. Even learned Cambridge Lisp on my Amiga 1000. And don't get me started with the Amiga system's multimedia capabilities vs those other platforms! No, it was a sad day for me when Commodore died. Also, using "borrowed" Apple ROMs, I was able to use a hardware/software Apple emulator from Readysoft which turned my Amiga into a faster Macintosh than the Macintosh model those ROMs were meant for. (Pretty slick hardware and software. Unfortunately, the required Apple ROMs could never be commercially purchased legally - Please don't tell anyone. Grin)

            Of course, I had a WinTel box as well at home and continued my extensive Windows hardware and software ecosystem until OS X Tiger and my first iMac PPC model (which still works - thank you very much - but is seldom used since I have been using my iPad 3, almost state of the art iMac 27" 16 gig ram and SSD boot drive model plus my MacBook laptop for my daily computer activities.

            Actually, if truth be know, tomorrow I am scheduled to help setup my friend's laptop for his college bound son with Windows based software. (Like many on ZDNet, I'm "fluent" in all commercial platforms except one - Linux. Although I have run several Linux distros in a virtual machine on my iMac from time to time. Unlike SJVN, I much prefer OS X and iOS platforms to Linux platforms. IMO, Apple has the most extensive ecosystem available today that integrates desktop, mobile and home entertainment capabilities for the normal consumer - what with Apple TV and it's AirPlay capabilities)

            I have had a few email correspondence with various ZDNet bloggers where I have shown my home PC setup running Windows 8 in a virtual machine environment. (Oh..IMO..ZDNet has the best collection of professional bloggers available online in one location. And the Talkback posters, for the most part, post insightful comments - you being one of them.

            As for myself, I'm enjoying retirement and as such, I have more time to post things online than most persons would. But usually, if I'm not enjoying the company of my family and close friends, I am on the golf course during the season honing my 7 handicap and playing in local tournaments. Although I've only won one golf tournament this year, I have finished in the top 5 on four occasions - damn those out-of-bound markers. Grin.
            kenosha77a
          • I'm happy you retired life works out for you

            For the rest of us will probably just keep struggling since the economy hasn't been so kind to us. I'm a late Gen-x and my first computer is actually, surprise-surprise, an Apple ][ (See nobody use that typeface anymore)
            Believe it or not I use to be quite an anti-Microsoft guy and went for OS/2 (and boy was I wrong) but Windows NT changed a lot of things and I've been stay with WinTel ever since.

            Since this is an enterprise oriented site, so I just keep that focus on the Enterprise side of things. The problem with the Apple/Mac is they paid absolutely zero effort for us Enterprise folks. They "claim" they have support but if anyone have half a brain would know that you can get a Dell server with onsite support for the same amount of money instead of a Xserve. With Apple you got have to bring the unit to their depot or ship them back for support, that's crazy. Speak of Xserve, we don't know how many clients has been burn by Apple obscured roadmap and decision that literally cancel the product overnight.

            The fact is, Macs has always been terrible for enterprise. For interoperations, all mac server does is cobbled up some open source components that you can either for free with Linux or equivalent option but easier management with Windows. Even today, supporting of iDevice is really just some 3rd Party solution and who-knows-when everything got changed again and we need to pay for fancy upgrade for MDM. I don't know what the hatred to the Microsoft but their solution has been excellent for support and scalable. I have yet to find any business case that what a Mac could do that a PC couldn't.

            I believe most of us who doesn't like Apple is really the manifestation of objection to closed system. Granted the lockdown nature has been working very well for their media integration but for people who loves to tinker stuff Apple's products are just nothing but some off-the-shelf component with shiny casing.

            Maybe things will change if I'm getting older and don't want to tinker things anymore. But at this moment, a Raspberry Pi that runs RaspBMC with a PC media server brings much more value than Apple TV with a Mac. Or, maybe I'm just crazy with tinkering things.
            Samic
      • I wonder....

        ...is Toddybottom just the latest incarnation of NonZealot?
        John L. Ries
    • todd's buttocks wrong as usual

      Now that Apple was just awarded a 1 billion judgement against Samsung.

      Go back to your panty wad where you belong, troll.
      Cylon Centurion
  • Poetic justice

    Justice is served, especially with regard to Apple.
    Tim Acheson
    • Poetic Justice indeed

      Especially in regard to Samsung.
      athynz
      • don't care, don't care, don't care...

        ...who copied whom. I'm tired of the law suites and wish they would both pack up their lawyers and go home.
        cornpie
  • S. Korea court finds cure for Apple-Samsung patent war: Ban both

    Great job South Korean court.
    daikon
  • Bingo!

    Ban them both and force them to the negotiating table to hammer out the necessary cross-licensing deals. It's like sending your children to separate rooms until they agree to be nice to each other.
    dsf3g
  • Awesome

    Now THERE'S a solution to help them figure their junk out. Of course Todd-Bottom is probably crying in his mom's basement because Samsung also lost. I've never seen such anti-apple fanboism anywhere before. It's like he is Matt Damon from Team America and can only repeat one line. Maahht Daahmun. Auh Hahtes Auhpuhls. Too bad he doesn't contribute anything intelligent to discussions. He sure does follow ANY and all apple stories though....and probably has never owned an iphone....
    Stormborn
  • That's one way to encourage patent reform

    And may be the only way likely to work, as long as the big boys don't form cartels, as MS has been encouraging for years.
    John L. Ries