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David Gewirtz
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Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot

By | June 14, 2010, 6:54am PDT

Summary: Life is full of little decisions. What to make for dinner. What color T-shirt to wear. Whether it’s time to mock Apple fans again. You know, those little, simple decisions of daily life.

Life is full of little decisions. What to make for dinner. What color T-shirt to wear. Whether it’s time to mock Apple fans again. You know, those little, simple decisions of daily life.

But for Adrian Lamo, the decision was whether or not to call the U.S. Government and turn in a U.S. Army intelligence analyst. Adrian made the right decision.

Here’s the cast of characters. First, there’s Adrian Lamo. We in the tech sphere got to know him some years ago for his hacking exploits, back when he broke into the New York Times and eventually turned himself in to authorities.

Then there’s U.S. Army intelligence analyst Bradley Manning, who apparently passed classified secrets on to Wikileaks, the Web site that publishes pretty much anything explosive it can get its hands on.

Finally, there’s Australian Julian Assange, the founder and operator of Wikileaks, who moves around a lot and is not exactly on the top of the U.S. Government’s Christmas card list.

Manning (the Army intelligence analyst) did some very bad things. He leaked classified information he had access to as part of job. This information included a video of a U.S. helicopter attack in Baghdad that killed several civilians. Far worse, he is also thought to have leaked upwards of 260,000 classified State Department diplomatic cables.

Let’s be clear here. Manning, who’s all of 22 years old, broke the law in a big way and is being punished. He’s currently under arrest in Kuwait.

Adrian (the American hacker) got sucked into the story when Manning contacted him about the documents he’d stolen. Apparently, Manning read a profile of Adrian in Wired and thought him a kindred spirit. Manning was wrong. Manning is a traitor. Adrian is not.

That’s why Adrian Lamo made the tough decision to contact the government. In doing so, he did exactly the right thing, but at a cost to his reputation as an outside-the-law hacker. Since this story broke, Adrian has received numerous death threats and is in regular contact with the FBI over protective measures.

Then there’s Julian Assange, one of the key people behind the infamous Wikileaks Web site. The U.S. government is looking for him. They’re still trying to recover the missing diplomatic documents and, apparently, Assange is on the run.

Next: Examining the moral and ethical issues »

More from “ZDNet Government”

Topics

Soldier, Adrian Lamo, Adrian, Bradley Manning, American, Wikileaks Web Site, Hacking, Security, David Gewirtz

David Gewirtz, Distinguished Lecturer at CBS Interactive, is an author, U.S. policy advisor, and computer scientist. He is featured in The History Channel special The President's Book of Secrets.

Disclosure

David Gewirtz

At various times during his adult life, David has voted for both Democrats and Republicans, and has been disappointed by both. He is deeply disturbed by how partisanship has come before patriotism in America, which gives him the freedom to pick on both sides.

David is a frequent guest on TV and radio stations across America and can usually be heard or seen on-the-air at least once a week. He writes weekly commentary and analysis for CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 and has been interviewed by Fox News, CNN, various ABC and NBC affiliates, and Canada’s Global TV. He has been a featured guest on National Public Radio and has also been featured on Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, and Radio Liberty where his commentaries on technology, industry, and emerging nations have been broadcast into 46 countries (all in their own unique translations).

David is the executive director of U.S. Strategic Perspective Institute, a nonprofit research and policy organization. He is the Cyberterrorism Advisor for the International Association for Counterterrorism & Security Professionals, a columnist for The Journal of Counterterrorism and Homeland Security and a special contributor to Frontline Security Magazine. He is a member of the FBI’s InfraGard program, the security partnership between the FBI and industry. David is also a member of the U.S. Naval Institute and the National Defense Industrial Association, the leading defense industry association promoting national security.

David is an advisory board member for the Technical Communications and Management Certificate program at the University of California, Berkeley extension. He is also a member of the instructional faculty at the University of California, Berkeley extension.

David’s “day job” is as publisher and editor-in-chief of ZATZ publishing, an online publisher of technical magazines. Other than than his ownership stake in Component Enterprises, Inc. (the parent company of ZATZ), David has no additional industry investments.

ZATZ has many advertisers who do, in part, provide for David’s lush income and extravagant lifestyle. Most of them are IBM and Lotus aftermarket suppliers, some of them make goodies for Microsoft Outlook, and a few make all sorts of strange mobile devices and add-on products. David has been a regular judge of the IBM Awards, but has no formal financial interest in or with IBM.

Because the ZATZ online magazines often review products, David and ZATZ are sent an overwhelming stream of unsolicited, silly, and often useless products to review. Because they’re such a pain to track and ship back, these products often wind up in a dumpster or fill up the corner of a large closet. Although David has no plans to review products in connection to his ZDNet blog, if he does do a product review, he will disclose any relationship completely in that posting.

Both through ZATZ and independently, David derives a small income through various advertising and sales relationships with Amazon.com and Google. These are minor relationships and they will not impede his willingness or ability to chastise either company should they deserve it.

David has many other business relationships, but none of them relate to anything he covers in his ZDNet blog. David does have a bit of the sales-guy bug and if he’s not doing a sales deal with someone at least once a month, he goes through withdrawal. He has a number of consulting clients, but none of them relate to anything he covers for ZDNet (and if they ever do, he will either disclose that fact, or decline to write about them).

Back in the 1980s, David held the unusual title of “Godfather” at Apple. He has written and published 40 incredibly simplistic applications for Apple’s iPhone.

Although David is forbidden to disclose the terms of his iPhone developer agreement, he isn’t drinking the Apple Kool Aid, will never be confused with a metrosexual, and feels free to mock Apple, and Apple users, any time the occasion permits, on alternate Tuesdays, or if he’s bored.

Biography

David Gewirtz

In addition to hosting the ZDNet Government and ZDNet DIY-IT blogs, CBS Interactive's Distinguished Lecturer David Gewirtz is an author, U.S. policy advisor, and computer scientist. He is featured in The History Channel special The President's Book of Secrets, is one of America's foremost cyber-security experts, and is a top expert on saving and creating jobs. He is also director of the U.S. Strategic Perspective Institute as well as the founder of ZATZ Publishing.

David is a member of FBI InfraGard, the Cyberwarfare Advisor for the International Association for Counterterrorism & Security Professionals, a columnist for The Journal of Counterterrorism and Homeland Security, and has been a regular CNN contributor, and a guest commentator for the Nieman Watchdog of the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard University. He is the author of Where Have All the Emails Gone?, the definitive study of email in the White House, as well as How To Save Jobs and The Flexible Enterprise, the classic book that served as a foundation for today's agile business movement.

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The Unbelievable Villification of Bradley Manning
SimonJCP 7th Jun
When Manning revealed military atrocities to the public, he should have been celebrated as a hero. However, the cultural attachment to "government patriotism" has caused columnists such as Gerowitz and the atrocious Dr. Laura to portray Manning as some kind of misguided villain.

Not one person has been killed as a result of information divulged by WikiLeaks. However, many innocent civilians were killed by the US military and we would not know about this if it were not for Bradley Manning. Wikileaks' only victims are the corrupt military officials, personnel, and politicians that it has exposed.

Manning is not a traitor, but someone who reported the atrocities being committed by the military -- a state-sponsored gang. Lamo reported him to the gang, and he is now being punished for it.

It seems society truly has forgotten that the "law" is not sacred and is not always correct. Someone who "broke the law" is not necessarily a bad person. If the conditions make their violation of the law a just act, then it is the law that is wrong.

Even if you believe that Manning was somehow in the wrong for bringing these atrocities into the public light, Lamo is still not a hero. Unlike Manning, he did nothing brave. He took no risks.

Our "outlaw-hacker"/"rebel" Lamo picked up a telephone and contacted the FBI.

Manning was a hero. Lamo was a good German.

Sometimes true heroism requires one to break the law. I believe history will look fondly on Bradley Manning.
View in thread
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
trelayne 14th Jun 2010
It is a matter of fact that most American's have lost faith in their politicians. They are not interested in the spin that is often used by one party or another to obscure the truth and proceed into unimaginably expensive wars (for example). They are more than capable of looking at the FACTS and making their own determination on what is right and wrong. It is the very reason why the press is supposed to be held with such high esteem; it is there to help the public become as informed as possible. But legal hurdles exist that prevents them from doing their job. That is where Wikileaks (and it's informants) come in. Although I agree with you that outing intelligence agents by name is dangerous as it can get people killed. It is to Wikileak's benefit to not allow that to happen. At the end of the day, as Daniel Ellsberg has suggested, the majority of classified information is classified to avoid embarrassment or the divulging of questionable actions that are taking place on behalf of the American people. And for that reason, Manning is a hero and not the villain in this particular situation for elucidating the true machinations behind U.S. foreign policy.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
MadWhiteHatter 14th Jun 2010
@trelayne As a former intelligence analyst for the Army, let me correct Daniel Ellsberg. He is full of crap. While the intelligence might only really need classified for a few weeks, it is information you cannot let the enemy have. When you get your ass onto the battlefield, we can see if you are so willing to declassify everything about what you are doing.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
trelayne 14th Jun 2010
@MadWhiteHatter. Being from army "intelligence", everyone knows you're going to spew the party line. So I won't argue with a religious convert except for this one point. If Ellsberg had leaked those documents years earlier, thousands of America's finest never would have died for a cause---that in the end---was put into motion by a madman who sent orders from the comfort of his home. What was that about asses on the battlefield? History will remember Ellsberg and Manning as patriotic heroes.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
20kwfence 14th Jun 2010
@trelayne First off, Adrian did the right thing. Class act.

Manning may have had a valid reason for wanting this outed. I don't know for sure. He should be punished regardless. If a private citizen got their hands on this, I would have expected no less. He is under contract not to divulge this information. If I did the same with secret company information where I work, I would be fired and prosecuted. He deserves no less.

Lastly, I don't see how you can hold wikileaks responsible. They are under no obligation to filter anything, other than fear of lawsuit. They weren't under contract to protect this or even should they have needed to check for it's legality. I wouldn't have done it but it's more of an ethical thing than legal.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
trelayne 14th Jun 2010
@20kwfence Actually, Adrian did what he did because he has Aspergers. Many people with Aspergers have difficulty putting themselves in the position of others. It's called "mind-blindness" in the literature. Having been diagnosed at such a late stage in his life, he clearly did not have the guidance he needed to make moral decisions. For example, "Aspies" (despite high expertise in a small set of subject matters) tend to get coldly logical when they are presented with moral situations that challenge them beyond what they are capable of processing. In this case, Lamo could not really comprehend Manning's motives for the leak. Despite Manning's best efforts (and this is common among Apies), Lamo could not understand intuitively the injustices Manning witnessed on the field and in diplomatic files---at least not in the way most would. It was through this severely limited lense that Lamo made his decision. Lamo will live with this for the rest of his life.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
zeblonite 14th Jun 2010
@trelayne

Of all the classified information in existence, I'd guess that maybe 2% is classified for PR reasons. First of all, classification guidelines are normally developed well in advance of the generation of classified information. Those guidelines aren't remotely based on how embarrassing or incriminating the information is, nor are they prescient enough to be prepared for whatever boneheaded mistake a soldier or politician is going to make next. Without those guidelines, the information would be out there before it could be classified - once the information is out in the wild, classifying it doesn't do all that much good. It's only truly a leak if it was classified BEFORE it ended up on a wiki somewhere, and it's only classified before it becomes public if there is a classification guideline that says the information must be protected.

PR might (very rarely) play a role is why something is not DE-classified, but it's much more likely that something wasn't declassified simply because there wasn't time, money, or motivation to determine if it was worth the risk of putting the information out into the wild. It's a horrible idea for someone without the proper authority to decide for himself to "unofficially declassify" (leak) classified information, as that someone is almost definitely missing part of the picture that explains why the information needed to be protected in the first place. Releasing classified information is a crime for a reason, a very, very good reason. Bradley Manning belongs in jail.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
John in Brisbane 3rd Aug 2010
@zeblonite 2% ? You serious? A LOT of stuff is classified for reasons other than pure national security. Well, you can draw all sorts of long bows with that. Like how it might make people more upset with you if they knew the mistakes and bad decisions being made - that could affect national security.
There is a bad bad bad culture within governments in your country and mine (Australia) in which all sorts of stuff is covered up under the guise of national security. If I stuff up at work or do something wrong on purpose, people will almost certainly find out and that's a good thing - it keeps me in line if ethics and personal standards might not. While Manning did break the law I have a fair bit of respect for him and I think his actions will be copied by many more and will contribute to a positive change in government culture. He will suffer and so will others like him but exposing wrong doing is everyone's duty mate - wouldn't you agree?
Maybe next time the Whitehouse is asked to examine material before it gets published they will respond differently. And maybe in time less bad things will be done in the name of yours and my countries.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
notme403@... 15th Jun 2010
@trelayne The kid leaked classified info. He is a criminal. He is certainly not a Daniel Ellsberg. The Pentagon Papers scenario is not comparable to this incident except in very broad strokes. Manning is no hero by a long shot. For one thing, the public opinion of the US Citizenry by and large will not be impacted one iota by the release of anything Manning had his hands on. We all recognize that there are terrible consequences when errors are made by those with heavy firepower. There is an inclination to want to cover your butt, but it is not up to the lowly analyst to make decisions about the dissemination of operational information.

Because of Ellsberg there are processes in place, along with a healthy bit of suspicion on the part of the public, that eventually illuminate the ugly events that happen from time to time. Manning should have kept it to himself.

He deserves punishment to the fullest extent of the law.
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it is not up to the lowly analyst?
o_p_i 9th Jul 2010
@notme403@...
well well well, who else would follow up on such an incident, with which I mean that the helicopter crew shot to death some, sorry, no MANY, innocent people.

It is not that Manning just leaked about everything he would find. And what he leaked has no tactic or strategic importance, except for theis helicopter crew and their superiors for covering up such a disgusting deed.

Tell me one, only one, example for that the military has brought to real justice their own soldiers?

And what do you mean by "when errors are made by those with heavy firepower"?
These were no errors, if you shoot at anybody who moves on the ground, including people who want to attend to the wounded.
If you follow the comments of the helicopter crew you know that this was cold, brutal, reckless murder by animal like soldiers of the United States.
Have they been punished "to the fullest extent of the law"?

And by the way, Obama promised, to run a much more open government. Well, here we have another example that the great saint is just a normal, almost sub average, guy with the most simple instincts.
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What if Manning had leaked only the video footage?
snberk341 14th Jun 2010
There are two elements to what Manning took/leaked. The video was about one particular incident, and while it may have been "classifed" it certainly did not expose any technical capabilities. The world already knew that US gunships in Afghanistan can kill from a distance. The video *did* show a particular incident, one that the military command might not want public for non-technical reasons. I have no problems with that video being leaked, as it will likely result in lives being saved.

The diplomatic cables is a different matter, I feel. These will be a "big picture" bit of background, and while there will almost certainly be information that is classified simply because it can embarrass the government, there will be others that are secret to preserve lives, and because important diplomatic initiatives are at risk.

Anyway, I just think you need to separate the two elements, because the ethics are clearer for one than the other.
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Master Joe Says..You're Wrong
MasterJoe 14th Jun 2010
@snberk341 Classified information is classified information. It is nto necessary to separate the two because they were both CLASSIFIED pieces of information. What exactly si contained in a classified document or video or whatever else does not change the meaning of the word CLASSIFIED. Don't start this debate of what is acceptable and what isn't based on the nature of the material. Classified is classified is classified. It's not one person'd ecision to determine whether or not information should be classified or not. And, what this young man did was take it upon himself to let classified information into the general public's view. Whether or not you agree with the information leaked or not is totally unimportant to this whole issue. It's NOT YOUR DECISION.

To give an example people might relate to, let's say you were accused of cheating on your wife. Now, the person that accused you had only told you that they believed you were doing so, and confronted your wife. That person later chose to leak this information to someone else, who spread the word like a wildfire. Would you be mad? Does it matter if you really cheated on your wife or not? No. The fact that it happened is bad enough all by itself. The difference here is that tis information is protected by law, and leaking it is not just unethical, but also illegal. It doesn't matter if it was a video of the top generals of the US armies playing with imaginary unicorns in a field of daisies on a sunny day, and talking about rainbows for a half hour. Why? Because it was CLASSIFIED. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but you are clearly missing the point. The video and the rest of the information all fall under the classified umbrella, and are tehrefore all the same, sharing that common link.

As for thsoe who have made death threats against Adrian for this, what an absolute embarassment to themselves. You can try and come up with a million justifications for how they are thinking or what logic they are using or blah blah blah, but it all boils down to adults (assuming they are) acting like children, stupid children at that. It's those people that we definitely need less of in society. The good news is that, just like the rest of us, they will one day die.

--Master Joe
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Unethical according to whom?
HollywoodDog 14th Jun 2010
@MasterJoe The professional trade association of army specialists who handle classified information?
If the release of the video allows the public to see what's really going on in the war and make better and more informed decisions about it, then it will have done a lot of good.
Are you making the assumption that ethics are defined by the wishes of the US government?
Would you sit in a chair and shock someone in another room because somebody in a lab coat was standing there telling you to do it? Wait, don't answer that.
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'Classified' is not carte blanche
snberk341 14th Jun 2010
@MasterJoe

I don't agree that keeping something secret just because it's "classified" is always correct. By your logic, if an army - any army - started killing civilians deliberately and called that action "classified", then no soldier should go public? Because that is what you seem to be saying.
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Master Joe is Correct!
zeblonite 14th Jun 2010
@MasterJoe

Classified is classified. Sounds like a cop-out, but it's not. Single-handedly deciding something shouldn't be classified is arrogant as can be. There's a good chance you don't know all the reasons something needs to be protected. You don't know what you don't know.
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Killing innocent people is murder and remains murder
o_p_i 9th Jul 2010
@MasterJoe
If the deeds of these helicopter pilots and their attitude had not been so outrageous, I would agree, but with the same argument of your's, basically "the law is the law", every dictator sends anybody he wants into prison or executes them.

This is 2010 and a government's decision often enough is not right, in the sense that it is in the best interest of the people, but only in the interest of saving some higher up's face.

This is by the way also missing in the lead article. There is no mentioning what this disgusting helicopter crew did.

And have they ever been brought to justice?
Or does the legal system of the United States permit THEM to kill anybody they want to, but if someone makes this incident public, this is forbidden by law?
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
John in Brisbane 3rd Aug 2010
@MasterJoe right so you never question why things are the way they are? You never think that somewhere, someone is making a bad decision? You have never thought that someone in a position of authority was behaviour improperly? Are you satisfied that there are effective means in place for people to raise concerns? And do you think that the word CLASSIFIED comes down from god on a heavenly gold plated stamp with virgin's blood for ink? Were you the inspiration for Forrest Gump?

We need a military full of disciplined, loyal people. But a leak like this is a sign that things are going wrong. Or do you think this helicopter incident was a one-off and that Manning is the only person in the US army who ever worried that something was being covered up? I guess life really is like a box of chocolates.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
trelayne 14th Jun 2010
@snberk341

I agree with other comments. Being "classified" does not mean anything to me. All I know is that someone thinks I shouldn't be reading something. And I seriously doubt that most classified materials have anything to do with nuclear launch codes, who's a covert spy, etc.. And all that BS about methods? Give me a break. If the U.S. government has methods that are "oh so special", they would have plugged the BP oil spill by now. What a load of baloney..
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
notme403@... 15th Jun 2010
@trelayne I'm pretty sure I would not want you handling any business for my company, making decisions for my family, and sure as hell would not depend on you in a fight.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
John in Brisbane 3rd Aug 2010
@trelayne yeah this last 10 years has been a bit of a wake up for me - growing up on stories of US exploits, especially the space program, the first gulf war, nuclear science etc, I had a pretty high opinion of US competence. But the response to 911 and random things like the flooding of New Orleans has shocked me - I now think the US is getting bogged down and losing its way. And while the US can rightly be accused sometimes of acting more like owners than leaders, we all need the US to succeed. Is your system truly self correcting? Or is it broken now? Its not looking so good right now I am sorry to say.
While BP can shoulder a fair bit of the gulf accident blame, for things to drag on like they have done, a bunch of people had to be asleep at the wheel. Why are potentially dangerous but crazily profitable activities like that going on without adequate safeguards?
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I have to agree, conflating the video and the cables muddies the waters
wolf_z 14th Jun 2010
The helicopter attack was a tragedy, but in war it's impossible not to have people die that shouldn't. Doesn't make it right, it makes it *inevitable*.

There *might* have been operational reasons to keep the video hidden. But maybe it was to avoid diplomatic "embarrassment. If that's the case it wasn't treason to reveal it. The military needs to take responsiblity when they kill civilians. If nothing else it makes sure this doesn't happen any more often than humanly possible.

The cables leaked, well, that's another matter. Depends on what was in them, but unless they fall in the same category as the video (and from the sheer mass of them I doubt they do) then that's stepping over the line and they'll end up killing him for it.

Treason in time of war is a capital offense.

But to the author I say don't dilute your message by conflating the gray with the black. It serves no one well.
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Tragedy? That was reckless or on purpose
o_p_i 9th Jul 2010
@wolf_z
I agree with you except that this was not a tradegy, but the video shows an utmost frightening mindset of these soldiers in the helicopter.
That crew had just fun killing people.

They have no good reason to believe that these people on the ground are really combatants, they kill everybody(!) they can see on the ground, they behave actually like butchers or animals.

Next time I see a U.S soldier on the street I will ask myself when will this guy start killing someone, because he just feels like it.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
AngerNotManaged 14th Jun 2010
I laughed out loud when I read the following ridiculous, authority-worshiping agitprop :

"...Some secrets should be kept secret, for the benefit of our civilization. If, for example, we have Americans embedded with terrorist cells, searching for missing fissionable material, ?outing? them would not only put those patriots at risk, but potentially entire populations... It would be wise for Wikileaks to cooperate with American authorities..."

Did it (just possibly) occur to you that (among others), those who run Wikileaks may NOT start with the automatic assumption - which you, as well as millions of other "patriotic" Americans seem to naively believe - that the motivations and activites of the United States, are basically "good" and "benign"?

What if Mr. Assange (like me), considers the United States to be a predatory, paranoid, declining empire that randomly murders thousands of innocent civilians in Third World countries all around the world (for example, the poor Iraqis who were so cruelly slaughtered to the guffaws of the American soldiers in the famous "Collateral Murder" video clip, or, earlier, the disgraceful abuse of Iraqi detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison)? Why would Assange "co-operate" (read : "help to censor evidence of American war crimes") with the U.S. government, in that case?

Maybe within the fantastically insular, isolated, "patriotic" domestic U.S. environment, where any questioning of America's basic motives is absolutely forbidden from mainstream media discussion, statements such as the ones you made in your column might at least be consistent (if wildly misleading). As for the rest of us - particularly Mr. Assange - we'll keep showing the citizens of Planet Earth, what your "home and native land" is up to.

If you don't like seeing this, maybe you should tell your glorious army to stop doing things like wars of aggression against Third World countries, snatching helpless victims off the streets of Europe and Pakistan and then torturing them in Gulags like Guantanamo and Bagram, or shooting civilians on the streets of Iraq.

Then your problem with "unauthorized disclosure" would go away by itself... right?
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Not just war crimes,
HollywoodDog 14th Jun 2010
@AngerNotManaged these are crimes against humanity. Bushco has the blood of millions on its hands, but we're supposed to get all indignant over little Brandon Manning?
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
klockheed 14th Jun 2010
@HollywoodDog - Bushco? Geeeze... think for yourself much?
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Murder tallies
HollywoodDog 14th Jun 2010
@HollywoodDog = 0
Bushco = 855,000 at least
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
faiz553 14th Jun 2010
@AngerNotManaged
Well said!!
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
MadWhiteHatter 14th Jun 2010
@AngerNotManaged If you hate it so much, move the hell out.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
AngerNotManaged 14th Jun 2010
@MadWhiteHatter wrote :

"If you hate it so much, move the hell out."

Uhh... do you bother to READ what people who disagree with you, actually write, as opposed to what you imagine them to have written?

If you had done so, you would have immediately understood that I'm (proudly) NOT a citizen of the United States. I live in the rest of the world, you know, the 95% of it that is populated by people other than Americans.

Most of us are (whether we will openly admit it or not... we're usually rather reserved about such things, since, unlike the U.S., at least in the other "Western" countries we've learned the hard way to try to avoid starting conflicts) immensely tired of hearing the kind of bombastic, xenophobic, jingoistic, self-righteous, delusional, "my country right or wrong" nonsense that passes for rational discourse within the United States.

So sorry to disappoint you, squire, but I can't "leave" the U.S. of A... I never belonged to it in the first place. But you have my sincere assurance that were I ever to have been so unlucky as to have been born in your near-bankrupt (both financially and morally speaking), universally despised, "2 months past 'best before' date" pseudo-empire, I'd be on the first flight out for "anywhere else".

That is if I could get past Mr. Bush's "No-Fly" list. Probably, I'd end up in some CIA-run dungeon, for the temerity of saying things that "patriotic" Americans like you, don't like to hear.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
DeusExMachina 14th Jun 2010
@MadWhiteHatter
Wow, that was one of the most ignorant, misinformed, unpatriotic things ever posted. It is also derivative, not even marginally original, and exactly the type of ill-reasoned response that prompts the type of rhetoric you protest against.
While it is clear that the OP has not particularly thought out his response, the love or leave it reply is even more idiotic.
FTR, the reason that we even exist as a separate country, and one of the key ideals this country was founded on, was hate it so change it, not love it or leave it.

Love it or leave it is about as un-American as you can get.
Great job soldier.
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Untill it kills your family, AngerNotManaged
John Zern 14th Jun 2010
then it's all different, right?

No BS here, step up and be 100 percent truthfull, OK?. If one of those cables getting in the wrong hands, and results in the bloody and horendous deaths of your children, would you be so glib?

Just as I thought, it would be a different story then, and you would be at the front of the line screaming for Manning's death, and you would even offer to do it yourself.

Sorry if you hate the fact that the US is the world's only remaing true Superpower, get off your but and get your country's ass in gear then.

Oh, and if you don't like it, maybe you should get your country to stop snatching helpless victims off the streets of Europe and Pakistan and then dumping their dead bodies in a marsh or grave someplace, Eh?
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
DeusExMachina 14th Jun 2010
@John Zern

If you are going to make silly, straw man arguments, at least let the other person answer them, rather than put words in their mouth and say "just as I thought."
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
Too Old For IT 14th Jun 2010
@AngerNotManaged: Nice of you to sit there and insult every last American veteran who has done their part to rid the world world of every tin-pot dictator who tried to bend will of human beings to his control since 1776.

You don't like the fact that war is a nasty business? Too bad. The problem is that, since the 1950's, we've had pansy-***** girlie men as leaders who do not know which battles to pic, and who are afraid to go and win the thing once war has begun.

Sorry you hate the United States, and loathe it's citizens. From this patriot and veteran to you, let me assure you that I will be happy to vote for any available candidate who agrees with me that Americans shall walk this Earth unharmed, lest the clenched fist of the most mighty military force in the history of mankind comes crashing down on your house.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
AngerNotManaged 14th Jun 2010
@Too Old For IT

"...lest the clenched fist of the most mighty military force in the history of mankind comes crashing down on your house..."

Thank you, sir, for summing up the true nature of the United States, and the citizens who inhabit it, better than I could ever do myself.

Your words, and your attitude, pretty much speak for themselves. But can I offer you some friendly advice?

These childish threats may impress or frighten the kinds of countries that the United States typically invades, devastates and oppresses, e.g. small, victim nations ranging from Grenada to Panama to Vietnam to Iraq (and, quite possibly, Iran, "real soon now").

Isn't it funny, though, how frothing-at-the-mouth American militarists like yourself, aren't nearly so enthusiastic about engaging in these kinds of provocations against nations - especially large ones - that also have nuclear weapons?

Why do you think that Iran is trying to build a bomb, and why North Korea has already done so? (They're both awful regimes - let's acknowledge that right from the start - but like any other regime, their first duty is to defend their nation from foreign attack or, worse, invasion and occupation a la Iraq.)

The reason is, of course, that "the most mighty military force in the history of mankind", doesn't like engaging in wars that it might LOSE, or, more to the point, that might result in millions of AMERICANS being killed by.

Of course, this is classic bully behavior, picking only on much weaker countries that can't effectively fight back.

So here's my advice : Want to prove how "mighty" you are?

Go attack China. See how well THAT works.

Or would you prefer just to stick with the tried-and-true of shooting helpless Iraqi civilians from missile-armed, armored helicopter gunships?

I thought so. Brave boy, you.
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Ah yes, stopping dictators, our stock in trade..
HollywoodDog 14th Jun 2010
@Too Old For IT like Mossadeq - no wait, he was freely and democratically elected - ok the Shah of Iran, ah wait thats... Saddam Hussein, uh wait we gave him all those arms and anthrax and botulism and supported him in a war, ok the Saudi Royal family, champions of democracy. Uh, wait, not exactly. Augusto Pinochet - uh, wait, didn't he do something slightly undemocratic... Hamid Karzai, fearless democrat. Uh, wait he stole elections and sold heroin. Ok, let's see, that bird who runs Equatorial Guinea. No wait, he's a tin-pot dictator. Hozni Mubarak! Freedom lovin' guy, right? Batista? Carlos Amas?
We'll figure out a champion of democracy eventually...
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
DeusExMachina 14th Jun 2010
@Too Old For IT
First, you are not in any position to speak for "every last American veteran"
Talk about hubris. Second, if you think the US has fought to rid the world of every last tin-pot dictator, you REALLY need to take a history class. In fact, the US is responsible for SUPPORTING a large number of these regimes.

"The problem is that, since the 1950's, we've had pansy-***** girlie men as leaders... ."

Such as? Could you possibly be referring to Viet Nam. I hope you are, because the list of U.S. military who said from the BEGINNING that MacNamarra was wrong, and that we could never win there is longer than your arm.

Again, you need a class in history.

"From this patriot and veteran to you, let me assure you that I will be happy to vote for any available candidate who agrees with me that Americans shall walk this Earth unharmed, lest the clenched fist of the most mighty military force in the history of mankind comes crashing down on your house."

This stupid attitude is EXACTLY why Americans are in danger in many areas of the world in the first place. It it the attitude of the Romans, from whom we get the verb decimate, and is one of the key reasons the Roman empire fell.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
nonmushroom Updated - 15th Jun 2010
@AngerNotManaged
Very well said. I could not agree with you more. First off so I don't get labeled as a tree hugger or any one of the other just as offensive labels that are circulating around these days - I was one of those nieve kids that joined the Army a few decades ago.

What I see on WikiLeaks is posted information that will effect bank accounts, popularity and may provide clues to events and operations such as the 911 coverup. There is a lot more at stake then being nailed for blowing up a few buildings. As you peel away the layers of the most recent crimes in history you tend to find that it's like a rabbit hole with no end.

So in my opinion the intention of WikiLeaks is to tell the truth and not expose secrets that could endanger anyone except of course the person who is posting the truth and the persons who don't want the truth to get told. We all inherently know that it is dangerous to tell the truth because we see what has happened to people throughout history who have told the truth instead of going along with the game plan (corruption, coverups, scandals, deception, murder, theft, etc. etc. etc etc.).
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Yep, it's authority-worshiping propaganda
HollywoodDog 14th Jun 2010
and it makes me wonder if this guy is an agent of the government.
The US government, like all governments, is a bloodthirsy wild animal serving the interests of the superrich and superpowerful, leaving trails of bodies, death and horror everywhere it goes.
To claim that causing that entity "embarrassment" constitutes treason is absurd.
The embarrassment we're talking about here in the case of the video was that American forces are not only murdering substantial numbers of civilians and journalists, sometimes accidentally and sometimes no doubt on purpose, but that the people flying the helicopters are whooping it up and laughing as they do so. Why shouldn't Americans see firsthand what is being done in their names, with their money. We have to see this stuff, and we have to realize that this is the cause of the 'blowback' we occasionally get when the chickens come home to roost. MLK was right, the US government is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world.
Daniel Ellsberg is one of the greatest heros our country has ever had, revealing through his leak that the US government knew Vietnam was unwinnable and was systematically lying to the public while shoving more kids in to the meatgrinder, and resulting in the deaths of millions in country.
If only we had more Ellsbergs and Mannings who were willing to put right and good and justice over Hillary Clinton's embarrassment.
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Are you all from another planet? What happned to you?
dallasgoldbug 14th Jun 2010
As a human being on this planet the only thing that is important is to do unto others... Everything else are just trinkets, nothing more than crap that the media tells you you need to be someone. If you are scared because you know your actions are about to be posted world wide thanks to Wikileaks, then you should have not been doing them to begin with. Manning and Assange get no special award because you dont get points for doing things humans are supposed to do. Bringing people to justice for crimes agents humanity should be what the media should spotlight. Your fundamentally flawed if you thing that we must protect our governments actions. THEY ARE THE REASON WHY WE ARE IN SUCH A S*%T HOLE to begin with. I hope its brought to light that every major corporation, every politician (except for Ron and Ran Paul), every branch of military, CIA, FBI, PRESIDENT, and foreign head of state is found to have committed just enough crimes, that it brings an end to their organizations and offices. To wake up tomorrow morning and not have to worry if the President signed in some executive order in the middle of the night that makes him think he can do what he wishes with us. Would be just the beginning to the incredible future that would start to come in focus off in the distance. We dont need them. We dont need the CIA, FBI, DOD or any other three letter acronym named government agency. We as humans would be just that humans. Free to live, free to create without fear, FREE TO ACCEPT THE ASSISTANCE FROM THE 13 OTHER COUNTRIES THAT OFFERED TO HELP OUT WITH THE BP SITUATION. THAT OBAMA REFUSED, BUT IS ALLOWING THE NATIONAL GUARD TO BEGIN THEIR MARTIAL LAW BULL. Leave the governing up to the individual States. That's the size of government that is big enough to be effective but small enough to still be personal with its people. Stop believing that lying is acceptable, its NOT. Stop thinking you are powerless, YOUR NOT. Stop relying on others to shape this nation when its each of our jobs to do. Stop relying on the gov for a hand out you didn't earn it neither did the officials that steal your tax money so they can line the pockets of their friends while piloting the next false flag designed to keep you in a perpetual state of fear. IF anything you should fear what will happen to us if we don't come together and make a stand. I say everyone in the country stop paying their taxes this year and watch their world come screeching to a halt. As for Lamo, hes a punk that had no clue if what Manning was texting him was even real. And for him to think hes being a patriot by protecting evil war criminals, is fundamentally flawed. When the truth comes out he should be charged as an accessory or attempting to conceal crimes agents humanity. covering for the wrongdoers no matter what their job title of level of importance in our government shows how brainwashed this world has become. He better watch out after the revolution, because if our officials are found to be guilty of these vial acts resulting in innocent lives being taken. The surviving family member s may have something special planned for any one who aided in the cover up.

He better run now, before Hillary buys the last ticket out of the country.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
wsmith@... 14th Jun 2010
Lamo's rationale is self-serving and disingenuously patriotic.

Others will continue to abet the freedom-loving public by going to Wikileaks and won't be so dumb as to confide in third-parties about it.

I suppose this writer is one of those who believe that the CIA has never lied to the Congress.

The accused still has not been formally charged. The Pentagon has a bit of a problem on it's hands if they do charge him and expect to give him a fair trial in the court-of-civilian-public-opinion. If I were the accused they'd have to kill me in order to shut me up after a conviction. That's the only way they could realistically shut me up without sending me off to secret rendition. A life sentence doesn't not equal denial of the Constitutionally guaranteed right of free speech. Unless they send him to Guantanamo and cut out his tongue.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
wsmith@... 14th Jun 2010
Lamo's rationale is self-serving and disingenuously patriotic.

Others will continue to abet the freedom-loving public by going to Wikileaks and won't be so dumb as to confide in third-parties about it.

I suppose this writer is one of those who believe that the CIA has never lied to the Congress.

The accused still has not been formally charged. The Pentagon has a bit of a problem on it's hands if they do charge him and expect to give him a fair trial in the court-of-civilian-public-opinion. If I were the accused they'd have to kill me in order to shut me up after a conviction. That's the only way they could realistically shut me up without sending me off to secret rendition. A life sentence doesn't not equal denial of the Constitutionally guaranteed right of free speech. Unless they send him to Guantanamo and cut out his tongue.
Moreover, I don't subscribe to this newsletter to be subjected to such politically sensitive points of view. I don't need to be "educated" by some fools personal opinion and I resent it!

You invite trouble by turning this into a political forum.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
MadWhiteHatter 14th Jun 2010
@wsmith@... The blog is called ZDNet Government. After your hearing comes back from the pop your head makes pulling it out of your ass, read it out loud and see if what you posted makes sense. He isn't turning it into a political forum; that is how it started.
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Contributr
RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
David Gewirtz 14th Jun 2010
@MadWhiteHatter happy
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
phoniel 14th Jun 2010
You haven't at all proved your premise that Manning is a traitor. You just asserted it a bunch of times and then claimed that his actions have "put American lives at stake" and "derailed" diplomacy efforts.
The first charge is an out and out lie: releasing diplomatic documents and video footage of war crimes does not "put American lives at stake." It sheds light on crimes committed by the American military. How does the video footage Manning leaked of a US helicopter murdering Iraqi civilians jeopardize American lives? How does releasing diplomatic cables which show the wheeling, dealing, intimidation, and bribery of the American state jeopardize American lives? He is not outing spies, as you claim. He's outing diplomats whose very job is treachery and doublespeak.
In regards to these cables possibly "derailing" diplomatic efforts? Perhaps they will. If they do, it will be because governments are not comfortable with public knowledge of what they agreed to. You show your lack of historical knowledge by not drawing the obvious parallel to the release of the Sykes-Picot Agreement by the Bolsheviks in 1917. In that case, the leaking of diplomatic cables led to great embarrassment for the French and British when it was revealed that they were dividing land up amongst themselves which they had already promised to both the Jews and Arab nationalists. Diplomatic cables are sent under the table because they are dirty and corrupt, not because of some shining ulterior motives.
Manning did the right thing by leaking the secrets of a government which is involved in global repression of innocent civilians.
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He should face the consequences.
pjboyles 14th Jun 2010
There is no excuse for Manning's actions. There are several paths which he could have pursued to have action taken on the video. First would have been to protest the classification of the video (simple to do and effective even if a bit time consuming). (And he could have contacted one of the many hungry congress critters slavering for TV time [something which I personally detest].)

That he, Manning, made his choice to release it publically without the authority to do so does not make him anything other than a criminal.

That Wikileaks published something they knew was classified shall come home to roost. Wikileaks should have turned over the cables immediately after determining what they were. Wikileaks could have applied to have the video declassified. Would it have happened immediately? No. Would he be facing prosicution for his actions had he done so? No.

Let him of Wikileaks show he has the convictions of his actions and face the consequnces.
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Protest the classification?
kc117mx 14th Jun 2010
@peter.j.boyles@...
The U.S. Government and U.S. Military establishment are angry because they have been slapped in the face. Reuters had filed a FIA request for the Collateral Murder video and the government told them that is was lost or had been destroyed. The truth that has surfaced is that the the whole thing was being covered up. I'm glad that this guy had the courage to do what many others are too afraid to do and reveal the truth behind this massacre. However, I think that Manning delivered far too much information to Wikileaks and for that he will be punished. Unfortunately we will never know the true extent of the potential damage that he may have caused because the information that we get from the government will be vague at best.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
nonmushroom 15th Jun 2010
@peter.j.boyles@...
Isn't that an oxymoron - a criminal exposing criminals. LOL. The real World is like the movie Shooter. The make believe World is what you hear on the news.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
MadWhiteHatter 14th Jun 2010
I can't believe the crap coming from so many of you on this issue. I was a soldier, an intelligence analyst. If you don't know why things are classified and how, just admit to your ignorance. If you want everything open to the public, maybe we can go talk to all of your ex-girlfriends and post their opinions of you. There are ways to be a whisleblower and not commit treason. There are very good reasons to not declassify everything that just seems a little juicy. As a general rule, almost all cables and all video surveillance is classified regardless of what is in it. The means, methods, targets, and location of our surveillance equipment must stay secret until it is no longer necessary. None of you have the training and apparently the grey matter necessary to make that call yourselves.

Adrian did the right thing. I've been a snitch too. I witnessed two parachute riggers buying hash and cocaine. Was I wrong for snitching? The way I see it, I probably saved a couple lives. The way I see it, Adrian might have as well.
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What vital sources and methods
HollywoodDog 14th Jun 2010
@MadWhiteHatter were compromised by the release of the helicopter video?
It looks patently obvious to me that the real 'crime' here was revealing that Americans are killing a lot of civilians and journalists, laughing and jeering as they do it. And that the gubmint thinks that will undermine the 20% or so public approval rating of the wars.
Will it generate hatred of the US and US soldiers? Maybe. But that hatred is generated daily by the events themselves.
See PBS Frontline about that company from Colorado? Several of them tell the same story; they drove around Iraq shooting random civilians for sport, later claiming they thought they saw weapons.
Investigators asked if they had times and locations of the particular incidents, and the soldiers laughed and said they were doing it constantly, and couldn't provide dates and locations.
If the public doesn't tire of this crap and cut off the money, our grandchildren will be reading these exact same stories.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
DeusExMachina 14th Jun 2010
@MadWhiteHatter
Well, I certainly CAN believe the crap coming from you. This slavish defense of matters even you know nothing about is hardly surprising. You claim to be former Army intel. First, that appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, and why that is so is made perfectly clear in this case. You have NO idea personally if the reasons for releasing this are justified. You have NO clue if there were ANY "means, methods, targets, and location of our surveillance equipment" that were compromised. You just pull on a blindfold and go along lockstep to the party line.

"None of you have the training and apparently the grey matter necessary to make that call yourselves."

While you may have the former, the idea that you have the latter is CLEARLY in doubt.
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RE: Adrian Lamo, Wikileaks, and what it means to be a patriot
Dr_Zinj 14th Jun 2010
I?m ambivalent over whether Adrian Lamo is a hero or not. His history isn?t that of a white hat hacker, and this incident proves he?s not a reliable confidant.

Manning still hasn?t gone to court on his part yet. So he?s innocent until proven guilty, and whether he was justified or not still hasn?t been determined. However, reports seem to indicate that he did his leaking out of retaliation for adverse personnel actions and being a minor headcase.

The really serious part that no news agency has yet understood or reported on is that Manning?s superiors knew he was a security threat, had plenty of written justification to immediately remove his access, yet chose to do nothing. In effect, his commander and supervisors were criminally negligent in their management of this situation and should be brought to court for their own complicity in this case. Frankly, I?d give his NCOIC and batallion commander adjacent rooms at Fort Leavenworth.

Unauthorized release of classified information is always against military orders. The releaser is always subject to the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. They can be offered non-judicial punishment (i.e. they get demoted, suspended promotion, loss of liberty, or fine (or any combination thereof)) for minor infractions, or have the choice of a court-martial. If they (and their lawyers) feel they have a good case to prove that their government or superiors committed a crime and the classified information was an attempt to coverup those crimes, it?s best to go for the court martial. And depending on the situation, even losing the case isn?t necessarily a bad thing; such as when General Billy Mitchell was successfully court martialed for insubordination for his efforts to prove to the heads of the services that their position on the use and development of air power was wrong. (Mitchell was 100% correct, but he was insubordinate and was convicted, and we did develop our air power to being #1 in the world as a result.)

The American government is neither safe nor reliable when it comes to people fighting against abuses under the Patriot Act. Supposedly by Presidential decree (which is actually against the law), they can still do an extraordinarily rendition on Julian Assange, or even put out an assassination order on him. The only cooperation he?s going to get is at the point of a gun, and he knows it.

Which means Wikileaks is even more important to the functioning of a democratic society. There is only one category of information that I would censor on the site and that would be leaks that pertained to a current military operation or the identities of undercover intelligence or law enforcement agents; and only if there wasn?t any accompanying information of those actions being against international law ? and this is where I disagree with many U.S. leaders and citizens - regardless of risk to those personnel involved. Prevention of a criminal action supercedes any duty to protect those participating in the crime, even if it?s a fellow military member.
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The Unbelievable Villification of Bradley Manning
SimonJCP 7th Jun
When Manning revealed military atrocities to the public, he should have been celebrated as a hero. However, the cultural attachment to "government patriotism" has caused columnists such as Gerowitz and the atrocious Dr. Laura to portray Manning as some kind of misguided villain.

Not one person has been killed as a result of information divulged by WikiLeaks. However, many innocent civilians were killed by the US military and we would not know about this if it were not for Bradley Manning. Wikileaks' only victims are the corrupt military officials, personnel, and politicians that it has exposed.

Manning is not a traitor, but someone who reported the atrocities being committed by the military -- a state-sponsored gang. Lamo reported him to the gang, and he is now being punished for it.

It seems society truly has forgotten that the "law" is not sacred and is not always correct. Someone who "broke the law" is not necessarily a bad person. If the conditions make their violation of the law a just act, then it is the law that is wrong.

Even if you believe that Manning was somehow in the wrong for bringing these atrocities into the public light, Lamo is still not a hero. Unlike Manning, he did nothing brave. He took no risks.

Our "outlaw-hacker"/"rebel" Lamo picked up a telephone and contacted the FBI.

Manning was a hero. Lamo was a good German.

Sometimes true heroism requires one to break the law. I believe history will look fondly on Bradley Manning.

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