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Social media privacy: Insurance companies want access to your Facebook

By | March 3, 2010, 7:32am PST

Summary: The first thing the insurance lawyers will do in court is to ask plaintiffs if they have Facebook accounts and demand a court order to review those accounts.

Any town U.S.A. You walk into a store and notice someone you recognize, from Facebook. But you really don’t know the individual; only online have you “met” that person. You have shared a note, or played a game on Facebook, Myspace, or other media website. You can choose to say hello or ignore them. That choice is up to you.

Sometime in the future, you wind up in a car accident and suffer physical injuries that you decide can be claimed in a lawsuit against the insurance company. Now your friends on Facebook may not have any choice of getting to know you up close and in person. You may not even be aware that they are being questioned.

Insurance companies are beginning to demand access to information about you and they do not want your explicit consent. In a Globe and Mail report, the insurance industry wants to use sites such as Facebook to collect and use background information collected to contradict any evidence you have used in your claim for damages.

The first thing the insurance lawyers will do in court is to ask plaintiffs if they have Facebook accounts and demand a court order to review those account — even if you have always had your privacy settings configured to be not searchable by Google or other services. And if somehow they find out that you are on Facebook and you said no, chances are your lawsuit against the insurance company may fail. And so  the game begins. The lawyers will have access to everything about you; your friends are also now exposed and may be questioned about your online habits what you are doing online, personal messages are read and now your friend’s privacy is also vulnerable - even if you have never met them in person.

The courts have had electronic document evidence used in the past. The issue of relevancy in a civil suit is new and poses new problems for the courts. So far ,decisions have gone in both directions. The Globe and Mail writes;

Her insurer, Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance Co. of Canada, looking for evidence that might contradict her story, went to a Brampton, Ont., courtroom last summer. Without her knowledge, Royal & Sun asked a judge to order that she preserve the contents and photos on her Facebook page, and then hand them over, including the parts of her page was set to “private” that could only be viewed by her 67 approved friends.

In October, Mr. Justice David Price denied the insurer’s request, ruling that Royal & Sun had failed to prove the page included relevant material, such as photos showing Ms. Schuster engaged in physical activities.

“There are many good reasons unrelated to litigation that people may have to withdraw documents from their friends’ view,” the judge writes. “Their right to do so should not be lightly interfered with.”

And you thought the Internet world was making your life more enjoyable. How you manage information on Facebook, Google Buzz, Myspace account information may have unforeseen future consequences.

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Topics

Disclosure

Doug Hanchard

http://government.zdnet.com/?page_id=5774

Biography

Doug Hanchard

Doug is the principal of Rapid Response Consulting, an advisory group that integrates ICT solutions. He has worked at some of the largest telecommunications firms in Canada, including Bell Canada, Telus and AT&T and is a guest lecturer for several universities and associations. He serves on several advisory boards in Canada and the United States.

Starting with a new national ISP in 1993 in sales, positioning internet access, web sites and network services began the path of telecommunications technologies from the early Bulletin Board Services (BBS) to the first web pages for commercial clients.

Became the National Data Network Service Manager for Frame Relay and Internet access for AccTel Enterprises which was acquired (after 3 mergers already) by AT&T Canada. Interested in how marketing could expand service availability, he moved to Telus to become the Frame Relay / ATM Product Manager and expanded the network across Canada. In 2002 he went to Bell Canada becoming a Solution Architect to get back to his passion for technology working with enterprise clients. In 2006, became the Director of R&D and Senior Solution Architect for Bell Canada Security Solutions Inc, developing I.P. based physical and logical security platforms and ICT services.

This position created new commercial concepts such as Crisis and Disaster technology solutions required for emergency use after an event occurred. He designed interoperable technologies and application combinations allowing any to any I.P. service through landline, broadband, satellite and wireless technologies to be deployed anywhere

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good idea about facebook
gavin.chan 2nd Oct
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Is this from 4 years ago?
hailpurdue 3rd Mar 2010
Insurance companies have been using Myspace and Facebook for years to deny claims. YouTube is also a big source, especially in auto claims. If you think for one second that the Ins Co's are waiting for COURT ORDERS you're out of your damn mind. I've worked in an insurance related field, and see claims denied weekly with evidence collected from social media sites.
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Because people are idiots
aep528 3rd Mar 2010
Lazy, stupid Americans are getting what they
asked for, and deserve. It not a matter of IF
online postings will come back to haunt you,
but WHEN.

Over and over again people are warned not to
post things online that they wouldn't want the
entire world to see, but the warnings are
ignored no matter how many situations like
these occur.

I keep pointing out on this blog that "Social
Media" needs to be treated like drunken
conversations at a bar - you might say things
you would normally filter, and you never quite
know who is listening or might repeat what you
said. What part of the word "Social" do people
not understand? There's a reason it isn't
called "Business media."
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Careful aep, your prejudices are showing...
Pete "athynz" Athens Updated - 3rd Mar 2010
Lazy, stupid Americans are getting what they
asked for, and deserve. It not a matter of IF
online postings will come back to haunt you,
but WHEN.


Did you even bother to read this article or just want to jump on the "I hate Americans" bandwagon? First sentence in the quoted article is (emphasis mine): Her insurer, Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance Co. of Canada... Tell me how Canada is America? Same physical continent, entirely different country. What part of that did you not understand? Quoted article is of a Canadian woman and yet you hurl insults at Americans? How was that deserved? How was lazy even entering into this? Dude, get a clue.

Over and over again people are warned not to
post things online that they wouldn't want the
entire world to see, but the warnings are
ignored no matter how many situations like
these occur.

I keep pointing out on this blog that "Social
Media" needs to be treated like drunken
conversations at a bar - you might say things
you would normally filter, and you never quite
know who is listening or might repeat what you
said. What part of the word "Social" do people
not understand? There's a reason it isn't
called "Business media."


And what part of "private" is not readily apparent here? Perhaps my understanding of "private" is off but when I activate the privacy settings on my facebook or other social media then it should be private - it's like I was at a large party and said something to several close friends in a room off to the side rather than made an announcement to the party at large. Doing a Google search for example shows NONE of my facebook, twitter, or myspace activity though it does show the activities of others with the same name but without - presumably - their privacy settings on.

Now getting to the topic at hand, if I file an insurance claim falsely and a representative from that insurance company does a Google search of me and find pictures proving my claim is indeed false then yes I agree they should then be able to file for a court order to obtain further proof... but to have my privacy invaded via a court order with no evidence to prove the claim is false? That is entirely different and is in short a violation of my privacy.
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Prejudice is right
djmik 3rd Mar 2010
And for that ignorant comment aep, you can blow it out your backside! Where are you from?
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New York State, USA
aep528 3rd Mar 2010
So it turns out you who responded are the ones
with prejudices because you made false
assumptions.
I stand by my statements. Why do you think
these issues arise in the US? Because Americans
have become too lazy and stupid to stand up and
force change on the government, and are too
lazy and stupid to change their habits after
seeing others' mistakes. Once law enforcement
and insurance companies saw the pattern of
behavior, they realized they could use it to
their advantage. If Americans woke up from
their caloric stupor (something like 50% of the
US can be classified as obese, so that is not a generalization)and paid attention to what they
posted online, law enforcement and insurance
companies would back off.
You can go and put your naive faith in privacy
controls, but the reality is still just as I
stated: As soon you as you give data to another person or company, it is a matter of WHEN, not
IF the data becomes public. Nearly every
Internet company, including Facebook and
Google, have stated they will comply with
subpoenas and court orders.
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Actually, they have no choice
mykmlr@... 3rd Mar 2010
Subpoena and orders of the court are binding on the affected party within the jurisdiction of a court.
The providers are not playing footsie with the court, they are doing their legal duty.

That's why it is OUR duty to only use email, photographic, video and sound files in encrypted form, using strong encryption such as GPU, and use 4096 bit key exchange, the strongest and slowest setting.
Once keys are exchanged, however, the game doesn't stop.
Periodically, go to one of your links and test for reproducibility of your exchanged key. Kind of like what smart cards do at the bank.
If there is ever a discrepancy, delete all old accounts and start over with a new Public / private key, exchange keys MANUALLY with your targets, and issue the new Public key only through those trusted keyholders you visited in person.
Lot of work, but the spymasters do intend to listen into everything you say and do for the rest of your life.
Kind of "1984", except they actually CAN do it now.
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Sad reality
jedikitty@... 3rd Mar 2010
As harsh as your message might be, I tend to agree with you. Anything posted anywhere, online or otherwise, could eventually be used against the poster if he/she is careless of the nature and details of the posting. So, if you posted it, privacy settings or not, it could come back to bite you in the rear.

"your friends are also now exposed and may be questioned about your online habits what you are doing online, personal messages are read and now your friend?s privacy is also vulnerable - even if you have never met them in person."

What I don't generally agree with in this whole case is lawman going after my friends for information that they could then very possibly twist in such a way that it does support their denial of my legitimate claim.
This "going after the friends" for information... sounds like a new flavor of McCarthyism to me. And wtf my "online habits"-what I'm doing online, have anything to do with any of this anyway? What's next, a webcam in my bathroom to check if I'm regular?

I applaud the judge who denied these leeches access to this woman's private information. Some things must remain sacred and that's that.
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As has been pointed out...
doug.hanchard@... 3rd Mar 2010
Insurance claims do have the 'right' to investigate any claim for possible fraud.

But the hypotheticals it brings up such as

-witness testimony (are they going to subpeona someone living 5,000 miles away?

-credibility of information (when was that picture *really* taken)

-how will lawyers use social information as evidence; behavior / pattern / cause / etc.

And what happens if the evidence works against the insurance company ? What happens to the information compiled? Is it destroyed, kept for future use (pre-existing history, let alone condition)

Once used, never deleted...

Thanks for writing.
Doug
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American
jsanko 3rd Mar 2010
Hey dumba$$, this country is called the United
States of America. America is two continents.
North and South. If you ask people from South
America, they consider themselves to be Americans.
Canadians are also Americans.
0 Votes
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Which would be fine, except....
snberk341 4th Mar 2010
.... that people who are citizens of that country
sandwiched between Canada and Mexico routinely call
the themselves "Americans", and say that they are from
"America". So - if others use the term that has been
usurped by "Americans" then - you should look in the
mirror when throwing out insults.
Why is everyone always ready to fight when the government wants something from its people. But I don't hear anyone with insurance companies wanting to discard people's privacy !?
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Social media privacy
Arcticman 3rd Mar 2010
what do you want from me ??

what get I paid?

cato2605@gmail.com
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As if I needed...
rapson 3rd Mar 2010
...another reason not to use Facebook. This is getting easier all the time.

Carl Rapson
Relevancy is the key, and probable cause comes into play. Aep528, asside from his insensitive prejudiced comments, makes a good point about privacy online, but with the security settings in place that FB provides, people are given a reasonable sense that they control their content and who can see it.

These companies can't just go on fishing expeditions expecting to find something when they don't even know what they are looking for. In criminal law, this is called illegal search and sesure. Why private companies even think they have more power than lawe enforcement is very disturbing.
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daluci Updated - 3rd Mar 2010
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Another "Big Brother"
roxspyder 3rd Mar 2010
Yeah, this is nothing new, there has been Big Brother watching you for years, its just been put in the media now, and now because now its on the news now its not a "conspiracy".Even though this is not the government, it still falls under the same category. We have no, and have not had, and will not ever have any privacy. Insurance companies need to do their own private investigating if they indeed feel they are being fraudulently taken advantage of. Not violate our constitutional rights to personal privacy. We do still have some rights to privacy, but they are few and far between, we need to step up and speak out against this. Otherwise we will lose all our rights eventually. Write your congressman, make phone calls, raise your voice and be heard, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. We can not, and will not bow down to the communistic threats of all of the "Big Brothers".
Join your local Tea Party and be heard.
EastWind the Infidel
roxspyder@xvarmint.com
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So what?
weisschr 3rd Mar 2010
If you live your life openly, who cares? Short of publishing my SSN, my life is an open book. The concerns over data "breaches" for social networking are just plain silly. The only time basic privacy violations matter is if you do something wrong.

This being said, what we need to regulate is what people do with information. For example:

- Government surveillance

- Insurance discrimination/pre-existing conditions/genetic exclusions.

- Employment decisions.

- Unauthorized resale of information for marketing purpose.

Once privacy is violated, it can't be undone. Consequently, I think it is much more important to control the decisions people make with data they collect or can find online.

With respect to data collected, use of personal data should always be an opt in. This includes data that can be accessed with a web crawler on social networking sites. Why should an organization be given carte blanche to resell a database they have built only because I do business with them?

Privacy cannot be protected, but decisions made with the use of personal data can be.
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I say go ahead
kcredden2 3rd Mar 2010
I'm not stupid enough to post anything dangerous to the net, reguarless. I don't see what people's need is, to post the stupidity of their lives. Why is it you need to give out your name, address, phone number, etc to every site in the country? When sites ask me for anything but my name I give them garbage. I've yet to find a site that can really force me to give real info about myself, no matter their testing (like zip codes, or even physcial addresses.)

It's none of their business, and I don't care how wonderful it'd make my life, and make food rain from the sky, they will NOT get it.

When I do business on the net I do give a pick up spot, but I don't give out my real phone number (it's a dummy one) or real address. So insurance companies want my facebook page? Go ahead. I'll give them my web site too!

But there's nothing on them.

- Kc
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Facebook isn't the real issue here.
guywayne 3rd Mar 2010
Yeah, if you put it out for the world to see, the world is going to look. But if you have your privacy settings set to only allow your friends to view your stuff, then you haven't put it out for the world to see. Once companies can snoop without cause (fishing) through your private stuff on a server, how long will it be before they can snoop through your photo albums at home, or go to the homes of people who they suspect of being your friend and snooping through their stuff. Maybe it would be o.k. with you if strangers decided that they need to inventory your things and take some of them for evidence because you met someone at the restraunt and they are being investigated. But I do not.
Well, that's no different than any other organization of collection of friends and acquaintances you may have via many other avenues, really. It's just another source of information for them and nothing any different than what they previously had available except it's online. E-mails, the whole computer etc. have long been used for evidence; same difference.
And once again, if you have nothing to hide, are honest and scrupulous, you've nothing to worry about anyway. If however you are a lying sack of ego and narcissism that loves to lie and belittle anything or anyone who doesn't agree with you and with any power over you, then you almost deserve to be pulled in and maybe even convicted. You sow what you reap in these situations.
WOW!..absolutely despicable, though not a totally unexpected move from insurance companies, eh?
What a shame!
I was injured in a car accident on January 27, 2010 by a girl who was texting while driving. She was also not wearing a seatbelt, so she was thrown around her front seat and consequently lost total control of her car and also hit someone else. This resulted in a 3 mm. fracture of my upper-right tibia bone and an extremely bad bruise on the left side of this leg as well that I still have. She only had $50,000 in insurance, so when she hit another person as well, it resulted in less money awarded to me. I am now going after my insurance company, Progressive, for money I am totally entitled to from the $50,000 of underinsured insurance I pay for every month. Progressive had the gall to ask me for my password and ID for access to my Facebook account. I was absolutely enraged by this and I wrote on the questionnaire that I am willing to bring my own laptop to my deposition and log on myself, but there was no way I was going to give them my private log on info. I actually don't have anything to hide as I only have a Facebook page because my friends badgered me into because they had photos and such they wanted to share with me, so if Progressive does actually see my site, they will be sorely disappointed as I have hardly anything showing on my page but an old family photo and pictures of my kids and grandkids. I wrote on this questionnaire that what they were requesting was a form of entrapment, not to mention an invasion of my privacy, plus they were wanting me to give up my 5th amendment right to not incriminate myself. This type of thing needs to become illegal for insurance companies to do as it makes policy holders feel like criminals that need to prove themselves not-guilty. I do not pay my monthly premiums for this kind of treatment.
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good idea about facebook
gavin.chan 1st Oct
A good post. Do you know tattoo? It is quite amazing. We supply kinds of tattoo kits, tattoo machines, tattoo needles, tattoo ink and so on. Please buy rotary tattoo machineat wholesale price from us.JehXN
0 Votes
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good idea about facebook
gavin.chan 2nd Oct
A good post. Do you know tattoo? It is quite amazing. We supply kinds of tattoo kits, tattoo machines, tattoo needles, tattoo ink and so on. Please buy custom rotary tattoo machine at wholesale price from us.LSWmz

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